FORCING PENSION CHANGE IS LIKE RAPE

[Vulcan]

The repercussions for those with pensions in Royal Mail don't bear thinking about and since Royal Mail workers/pensioners deal with many financial institutions it WILL have far reaching consequences. A bank can be compared to a pension. They both are used by people. The government can pay into our pension if they had the political will. End of.[

With respect, this is tosh.
Were RM's scheme to collapse (and it won't) you honestly feel it would have the same effect on the economy of GB as a run on a bank? A bank can be compared to a pension fund?

Maybe you're forgetting that there are many pension schemes, (including goernment dept. ones) who've been hit hard by the same conditions ours has, so apart from the fact that the government sure as Hell won't want to create a precedent by paying money into failing schemes, they (the government) also won't want to be seen to be "looking after their own" at the expense of the rest of society, because that would be a big vote-loser too.
All this talk of EU, banks, laws, political wills etc etc is just hot air though. The fund has been rejigged whether we like it or not, and although it appears to be not as good as before, we're stuck with it.
All the carping and criticising, hypothetical ruminating, dumb name-calling and "ahh yeah buts" ultimately mean nothing, as do the threats of further IA. The last strike would have crumbled had it gone on much longer (mainly due to all the young kids and Poles on short-term/1 hour per day contracts having no will or reason to strike) and this will be more of the same.

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

So it's just hot air when pensioners lobbied the government for compensation for pension schemes that had collapsed for various means and the government said sorry but we can't help you, then changed their decision and did compensate them some of them fully?

[andy2007]

The repercussions for those with pensions in Royal Mail don't bear thinking about and since Royal Mail workers/pensioners deal with many financial institutions it WILL have far reaching consequences. A bank can be compared to a pension. They both are used by people. The government can pay into our pension if they had the political will. End of.[

With respect, this is tosh.
Were RM's scheme to collapse (and it won't) you honestly feel it would have the same effect on the economy of GB as a run on a bank? A bank can be compared to a pension fund?

Maybe you're forgetting that there are many pension schemes, (including goernment dept. ones) who've been hit hard by the same conditions ours has, so apart from the fact that the government sure as Hell won't want to create a precedent by paying money into failing schemes, they (the government) also won't want to be seen to be "looking after their own" at the expense of the rest of society, because that would be a big vote-loser too.
All this talk of EU, banks, laws, political wills etc etc is just hot air though. The fund has been rejigged whether we like it or not, and although it appears to be not as good as before, we're stuck with it.
All the carping and criticising, hypothetical ruminating, dumb name-calling and "ahh yeah buts" ultimately mean nothing, as do the threats of further IA. The last strike would have crumbled had it gone on much longer (mainly due to all the young kids and Poles on short-term/1 hour per day contracts having no will or reason to strike) and this will be more of the same.

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

So it's just hot air when pensioners lobbied the government for compensation for pension schemes that had collapsed for various means and the government said sorry but we can't help you, then changed their decision and did compensate them some of them fully?

I have already said, that from the Country's point of view, saving the Banks is more important than our Pensions. But what I still don't understand, is why it is LEGAL to help the Banks, but ILLEGAL to help our Pensions.

The Government claims that it is illegal to bail out our Pension Scheme, but is bailing out the Banks. But if so, could someone please explain why. I'm not trying to cause trouble. I just want to understand.

If it is illegal, then fair enough. If it ISN'T illegal, then why is the Government lying about it?

[Tman]

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

Sarcasm, eh? I'm surprised at you. Anyway, I HAVE a highly paid job with RM.

So it's just hot air when pensioners lobbied the government for compensation for pension schemes that had collapsed for various means and the government said sorry but we can't help you, then changed their decision and did compensate them some of them fully

It's hot air (and lots of it) for posters to go on interminably like "why don't we..." and "yeah buts...", but that's nothing to do with the likes of Dexion or British Steel or Mirror Group pensioners who lost ALL thier pension then lobbied for compo and in the long-term managed to get the law changed as well. Well done to them too, but can that be compared to the RM scheme in the public's minds where we still have a very good scheme?
"Poor old Posties" they've said "having to retire at 65 just like the rest of us (if we're lucky). Our heart's bleed for them".

[andy2007]

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

Sarcasm, eh? I'm surprised at you. Anyway, I HAVE a highly paid job with RM.

So it's just hot air when pensioners lobbied the government for compensation for pension schemes that had collapsed for various means and the government said sorry but we can't help you, then changed their decision and did compensate them some of them fully

It's hot air (and lots of it) for posters to go on interminably like "why don't we..." and "yeah buts...", but that's nothing to do with the likes of Dexion or British Steel or Mirror Group pensioners who lost ALL thier pension then lobbied for compo and in the long-term managed to get the law changed as well. Well done to them too, but can that be compared to the RM scheme in the public's minds where we still have a very good scheme?
"Poor old Posties" they've said "having to retire at 65 just like the rest of us (if we're lucky). Our heart's bleed for them".

That's a rather sarcastic comment, considering that you just criticised someone for doing exactly the same thing.

I was under the impression, that it was good to discuss things, rather than just go off half cocked. Or have I missed something?
The whole point of "why dont we...." and "yeah but.....", is to hypothisise, so that we can possibly improve things. If it comes to nothing, then what have we lost?
A bit of time, and a few KB on Postman's Computer. Big deal!

If we don't discuss things openly, and try to understand each other's points of view, then we will just end up at each other's throats. Have you learnt nothing from History?

To return to the question I have asked repeatedly, without any answer: Why is it legal to bail out Banks, but not Pension Schemes. If it isn't anything to do with EU Law, then why can't the Government simply admit that they don't want to help us?

Before anyone reminds me that Banks are considered more important. I'd just like to point out, that it is the legal situation that I want to understand.

[slamdunkin]

Utter rubbish 'mr tea man' what happened at 'bearings' where the infamous mr N Leason caused a slight problem ?

in bearing case the money had been spent .ie lost to whomever nick leeson traded with
in northern rock case is different .banks have to by law have a minimum amount of monetary reserves collapsing stocks left them with below that amount so they asked for emergency funding..the moneys hasnt really gone anywhere.the debt to the government is possible loss not actual lose(liability)if everyone with a northern rock morgage decided they could pay tomorrow than its actual and that is why the banks need reserves.

very simple economics.THINK!

[Vulcan]

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

Sarcasm, eh? I'm surprised at you. Anyway, I HAVE a highly paid job with RM.[

And I don't suppose part of your highly paid job with RM is to keep the workers from questioning the pension reform by posting on forums like RMC explaing the futility of resistance to the proposals and to accept the inevitable? Are you in the same pension scheme?

[Tman]

And I don't suppose part of your highly paid job with RM is to keep the workers from questioning the pension reform by posting on forums like RMC explaing the futility of resistance to the proposals and to accept the inevitable?

No.Should it be?

Are you in the same pension scheme?

Yes.

I sense another version of the "are you an RM plant?" line of debate developing..

[Tman]

That's a rather sarcastic comment, considering that you just criticised someone for doing exactly the same thing. :d'oh

I didn't think it was. I WAS surprised at Vulcan's comment, and I am well paid, so accurate rather than sarcastic.

I'm with you on the rest though. Debate is why we're here, but judging by some replies in most threads, many apparently don't quite agree with that.

[slamdunkin]

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

Sarcasm, eh? I'm surprised at you. Anyway, I HAVE a highly paid job with RM.[

And I don't suppose part of your highly paid job with RM is to keep the workers from questioning the pension reform by posting on forums like RMC explaing the futility of resistance to the proposals and to accept the inevitable? Are you in the same pension scheme?

some should act there age.it does not matter to me what job he does ,if hes a mi6 agent or a painter and it shouldn't matter to you...
its an opinion

AND DO YOU SERIOUSLY BELIEVE ANYONE'S GOING TO BE EMPLOYED TO COME INTO ROYAL MAIL CHAT AND PREACH ROYAL MAIL VIEWS TO MILITANT UNIONIST'S.YOU GUYS DO IT FOR FREE FOR THE UNION THATS SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR YOU ,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.shh there all out to get us

[Vulcan]

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

Sarcasm, eh? I'm surprised at you. Anyway, I HAVE a highly paid job with RM.[

And I don't suppose part of your highly paid job with RM is to keep the workers from questioning the pension reform by posting on forums like RMC explaing the futility of resistance to the proposals and to accept the inevitable? Are you in the same pension scheme?

some should act there age.it does not matter to me what job he does ,if hes a mi6 agent or a painter and it shouldn't matter to you...
its an opinion

AND DO YOU SERIOUSLY BELIEVE ANYONE'S GOING TO BE EMPLOYED TO COME INTO ROYAL MAIL CHAT AND PREACH ROYAL MAIL VIEWS TO MILITANT UNIONIST'S.YOU GUYS DO IT FOR FREE FOR THE UNION THATS SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR YOU ,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.shh there all out to get us

Have I touched a nerve?
You are shouting at me.
Not everyone using RMC is a raging militant, lots come on here to be informed of what's happening elsewhere in RM.

[slamdunkin]

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

Sarcasm, eh? I'm surprised at you. Anyway, I HAVE a highly paid job with RM.[

And I don't suppose part of your highly paid job with RM is to keep the workers from questioning the pension reform by posting on forums like RMC explaing the futility of resistance to the proposals and to accept the inevitable? Are you in the same pension scheme?

some should act there age.it does not matter to me what job he does ,if hes a mi6 agent or a painter and it shouldn't matter to you...
its an opinion

AND DO YOU SERIOUSLY BELIEVE ANYONE'S GOING TO BE EMPLOYED TO COME INTO ROYAL MAIL CHAT AND PREACH ROYAL MAIL VIEWS TO MILITANT UNIONIST'S.YOU GUYS DO IT FOR FREE FOR THE UNION THATS SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR YOU ,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.shh there all out to get us

Have I touched a nerve?
You are shouting at me.
Not everyone using RMC is a raging militant, lots come on here to be informed of what's happening elsewhere in RM.

well thats my point,stick to information and not witch hunting of fellow posters...

[Vulcan]

Do continue on after NT leaves RMC? You're another one that knows all the answers, why are you still with RM when obviously with all your talents/business expertise you could be a big asset elsewhere in a higher paid job.

Sarcasm, eh? I'm surprised at you. Anyway, I HAVE a highly paid job with RM.[

And I don't suppose part of your highly paid job with RM is to keep the workers from questioning the pension reform by posting on forums like RMC explaing the futility of resistance to the proposals and to accept the inevitable? Are you in the same pension scheme?

some should act there age.it does not matter to me what job he does ,if hes a mi6 agent or a painter and it shouldn't matter to you...
its an opinion

AND DO YOU SERIOUSLY BELIEVE ANYONE'S GOING TO BE EMPLOYED TO COME INTO ROYAL MAIL CHAT AND PREACH ROYAL MAIL VIEWS TO MILITANT UNIONIST'S.YOU GUYS DO IT FOR FREE FOR THE UNION THATS SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR YOU ,NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.shh there all out to get us

Have I touched a nerve?
You are shouting at me.
Not everyone using RMC is a raging militant, lots come on here to be informed of what's happening elsewhere in RM.

well thats my point,stick to information and not witch hunting of fellow posters...

That's right Slamdunkin, tell them to stop witch hunting me.