Legacy payments sacrifical lamb?

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 05 Apr 2017, 20:00

At the end of the day for what ever legacy payments or pensions or lapsing or shift payments can we trust ROYALMAIL on anything anymore!

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 05 Apr 2017, 20:12

some weeks you could make in excess of £70 on D2Ds in the old system....it was nearly always about £35-40 though. we lost that and it was shared out between every body in D.Os and MCs.,, D.Os got about 18 quid (that was at the time, its went up since then) MCs got about £8 or £9 mail centre supplement. drivers and phgs on legacy payments scored for both, cos they got the del/sup or mail cent/sup as well. I cannot for the life of me think why any foot postie voted for unlimited D2Ds for less money but it was voted in. everybody who didn't do them were clapping their hands but the delivery posties lost out. now if this legacy money IS going to be scrapped, then the union would do well to repeat the same act they did with the D2D money and ''put it into the workload'' and share it out with all the staff as they did with OUR money. at least we'll ALL be getting something and won't lose out. or do you's not want to share it like we were forced to do.!!

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 05 Apr 2017, 20:20

How many still get the ex-PHG payment? If it's in the 100s then it';ll probably be 2 or 3 people per office

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 05 Apr 2017, 20:26

the union reckon RM pay £61 million out in legacy payments.

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 15 Apr 2017, 14:46

fishtank wrote:You do authorise the CWU to negotiate on your behalf. That's pretty much the definition of collective bargaining. You can't on an individual basis pick and choose which terms and conditions it negotiates. In 2010 I, along with most of the guys on delivery lost my Early Shift allowance which had been "retained indefinitely". We have over the years lost other allowances in the name of pay simplification. Legally the position is simple, If you hand over the power to negotiate your T&Cs to a third party on a collective basis and those changes are accepted by the collective using a legitimate democratic process then the changes are lawful.

At the end of the day you could always rock up to Moya's office and try to negotiate your own terms and conditions.

well said

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 15 Apr 2017, 14:53

heapsy wrote:
stephen500 wrote:
heapsy wrote:
stephen500 wrote:Having looked at RM pay proposals presented at the national briefing, I just hope that our union is not prepared to sacrifice our legacy payments to acheive it's pension aim. Sacrificing one group of workers to improve the lot of others is not what our union should be about. Ex PHGs stand to lose £20 (PHG), £10 PBS and for those on nights around £12 in night allowance. A wacking £42 per week or £2000 per annum. On top of that we stand to lose up to £5000 per annum in pensionable allowances. Even if we had a 2.5% pay rise for 3 years, it would only be in the third year, that we would get back to where we would be in 2017 with those cuts.
In 2000 under the way forward, ex PHGs had to wait for about 4 years before we got a pay rise, whilst postman's pay caught up. Don't sell us out.
The issue of legacy payments is always going to affect someone. I think people have to accept that not everyone will be entirely happy. In delivery we lost D2D payments. For me that was £26 a week. Nobody complained about us losing out. Some of my colleagues, those that don't deliver them, gained at the same time, by receiving the delivery supplement. If you look further back, a decision was made to retain the Final Salary pension at the expense of future employees. How many who voted for that, complained about how unfair THAT would be. My guess is a big fat zero. The main issue is the type of, and quality of the pension for ALL.
Losing £42 a week is a lot and yes I am complaining. You also had a pay rise under the way forward and our pay was frozen for up to 4 years while you caught up.
If you work in processing then you get a bonus. In delivery we get nothing. Apart from that is, the ear ache from managers because we are unable to cope with the daily onslaught of mail, without going over our duty spans. The bullying that goes on is relentless. What you have to remember is this, these payments are dying out. As people retire or leave, fewer are receiving them. In our office, we had two receiving PHGs allowance, even though they were no longer performing that duty. One has since retired on ill health. That leaves one. There are two people receiving driving allowance. As people retire, these payments will stop. Delivery staff gave up for the benefit of all. We lost our early shift payments because of a move in start time, = less pensionable pay. So should everyone else. Taking it to the extreme, what you are saying is a former PHG in a small town should receive their payment, to the detriment of all. Crazy. We have to move forward to improve pay and pensions for ALL. I notice you never mentioned the pension scheme you are in. Section B, almost certainly. That was my point. As for catching up, we should never have been on different payments apart from shift allowances in the first place. BTW, £26 over 47 weeks ( I've allowed for 5 weeks annual leave ) comes to £1222. Non pensionable. Therefore delivery staff, despite being the work horses of the business, get paid less and don't last as long in the job. (knees, hips?) IF I manage to get to 60, I will barely have enough pension to live off, despite nearly 39 years of pension rights. This is not only due to the split into different pensions and possible reduction for early payment. It is also due to the selfish attitude of those, probably including yourself, (if you joined RM before 1st April 1987) who thought only of yourselves all those years ago. Something that is still continuing.

another well said. In my opinion

gb93 · Post by **gb93** » 15 Apr 2017, 14:55

daveyeff wrote:some weeks you could make in excess of £70 on D2Ds in the old system....it was nearly always about £35-40 though. we lost that and it was shared out between every body in D.Os and MCs.,, D.Os got about 18 quid (that was at the time, its went up since then) MCs got about £8 or £9 mail centre supplement. drivers and phgs on legacy payments scored for both, cos they got the del/sup or mail cent/sup as well. I cannot for the life of me think why any foot postie voted for unlimited D2Ds for less money but it was voted in. everybody who didn't do them were clapping their hands but the delivery posties lost out. now if this legacy money IS going to be scrapped, then the union would do well to repeat the same act they did with the D2D money and ''put it into the workload'' and share it out with all the staff as they did with OUR money. at least we'll ALL be getting something and won't lose out. or do you's not want to share it like we were forced to do.!!

got to say well said again

TheTrolleyMan · Post by **TheTrolleyMan** » 15 Apr 2017, 16:39

Ive heard that Delivery Coaches will keep their coaching allowances but will be expected to mop up any delivery failures , absences etc

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 15 Apr 2017, 23:49

daveyeff wrote:some weeks you could make in excess of £70 on D2Ds in the old system....it was nearly always about £35-40 though. we lost that and it was shared out between every body in D.Os and MCs.,, D.Os got about 18 quid (that was at the time, its went up since then) MCs got about £8 or £9 mail centre supplement. drivers and phgs on legacy payments scored for both, cos they got the del/sup or mail cent/sup as well. I cannot for the life of me think why any foot postie voted for unlimited D2Ds for less money but it was voted in. everybody who didn't do them were clapping their hands but the delivery posties lost out. now if this legacy money IS going to be scrapped, then the union would do well to repeat the same act they did with the D2D money and ''put it into the workload'' and share it out with all the staff as they did with OUR money. at least we'll ALL be getting something and won't lose out. or do you's not want to share it like we were forced to do.!!

You've got to remember that it was voted in by delivery staff, staff who work in DOs outnumber staff in MCs, RDCs, MDECs, etc by at least 2:1 For any agreement, it could be the shittest in the world, even if all non-delivery staff voted against it, we can be easily outvoted by delivery staff

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 16 Apr 2017, 22:06

SpacePhoenix wrote:
daveyeff wrote:some weeks you could make in excess of £70 on D2Ds in the old system....it was nearly always about £35-40 though. we lost that and it was shared out between every body in D.Os and MCs.,, D.Os got about 18 quid (that was at the time, its went up since then) MCs got about £8 or £9 mail centre supplement. drivers and phgs on legacy payments scored for both, cos they got the del/sup or mail cent/sup as well. I cannot for the life of me think why any foot postie voted for unlimited D2Ds for less money but it was voted in. everybody who didn't do them were clapping their hands but the delivery posties lost out. now if this legacy money IS going to be scrapped, then the union would do well to repeat the same act they did with the D2D money and ''put it into the workload'' and share it out with all the staff as they did with OUR money. at least we'll ALL be getting something and won't lose out. or do you's not want to share it like we were forced to do.!!
You've got to remember that it was voted in by delivery staff, staff who work in DOs outnumber staff in MCs, RDCs, MDECs, etc by at least 2:1 For any agreement, it could be the shittest in the world, even if all non-delivery staff voted against it, we can be easily outvoted by delivery staff

i don't think it was.....why would WE vote for THAT shite. its turkeys voting for crimbo.....its been said loads voted, but not enough D.O. staff. fact is....loads voted...but not enough D.O. staff. that's obvious. come on space phoenix. ....would YOU vote to lose your legacy payments....don't think so.

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 16 Apr 2017, 22:15

We didn't ever simply vote on D2D payment v delivery supplement.
it was a small part of a much bigger agreement.

You seem to believe that the status quo was an option - that we could have kept the unit payment.
It was clear that that was going to go. As did the ESA.

And of course it was delivery staff that voted in BT 2010.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 16 Apr 2017, 22:20

I would like to ask....just out of interest. can ANY D.O. staff, who are foot posties...tell the truth....can you HONESTLY say, did you vote for unlimited D2Ds and lose money??.....if so....WHY???

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 16 Apr 2017, 22:38

clashcityrocker wrote:We didn't ever simply vote on D2D payment v delivery supplement.
it was a small part of a much bigger agreement.

You seem to believe that the status quo was an option - that we could have kept the unit payment.
It was clear that that was going to go. As did the ESA.

And of course it was delivery staff that voted in BT 2010.

clash....NO, I DIDN'T believe the status quo was an option. Dave Ward said if we were prepared to let the D2Ds go, then RM would pull them out of the system because they were not prepared lose money on them....which was a big F*****G LIE. if we had said ''ok'' pull them, they KNEW how much money they would've lost from them if we had said shove them up ya arse. it was a good move by the union to get them into the workload, but WE the d.o. staff didn't vote it in...did YOU vote for it ? come on. delivery staff DIDN'T vote it in.!!

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 16 Apr 2017, 23:17

A lot of posties are up on the deal re. delivery supplement. I personally am up on the deal. At the time I didn't like the smell of the deal cos I thought D2D's would increase 2 or 3 times. But it hasn't really panned out that way - not where I am at least.
That being said, I know that a lot of (urban) posties might well be down on the deal.

I don't know the exact figures either way.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 17 Apr 2017, 00:59

daveyeff wrote:
clashcityrocker wrote:delivery staff DIDN'T vote it in.!!

Even if all non-delivery staff voted against it, there's more than enough delivery staff who could have voted it in