Legacy payments sacrifical lamb?

[SpacePhoenix]

. ( tpm. coaching payment. night allowance. driving pay. all legacy payments.).
.

The TPM allowance has looked dodgy for years, ever since Ops area managers (in MC's) utilized the TPM hours allocation for additional processing time. Then again, most so-called TPM trained operators saw it as nothing more than "money for nothing" and did no more than the other non-TPM trained staff.
Piss-poor management yet again.

When we get the time the machines get TPM'd, trouble is a lot of the time as soon as the mail has been run and boxed up the staff get moved to other sections. If the TPM allowance got axed then RM would need to have the engineers do the cleaning of the machines

[Tman]

But those engineering hours were given up (ie transferred to Ops) years ago, and there's no slack time to start inserting cleaning schedules again.
So, employ more expensive Engineers, or tell operators to keep on cleaning...
How do you think that'll turn out?

[SpacePhoenix]

But those engineering hours were given up (ie transferred to Ops) years ago, and there's no slack time to start inserting cleaning schedules again.
So, employ more expensive Engineers, or tell operators to keep on cleaning...
How do you think that'll turn out?

They've loads of slack time. Apart from breakdowns they'll generally be sat in their office for a whole shift

[Tman]

You ought to be a manager with that general level of presumptive ignorance..

[fishtank]

This thread is getting silly, most legacy payments are by definition money for nothing now. That's why they're called legacy payments. TPM doesn't really exist in the form it was originally defined mostly because of staff cuts, just like the huge increase in Work Place Coaches in delivery offices when we were paying that Japanese "professor" a fortune who are mostly doing nothing for their extra £35 a week it was another daft short term idea that the business now regrets.

The question isn't whether anyone "deserves" the money (if you no longer do it, you don't ) but whether it should be put to better use in the overall pay bill and how to deal with or compensate those who have been receiving these allowances for years and expected them to continue.

It isn't an easy question to resolve and the fault lies with the employer, not the employee. If the business had any sense it would have written a life span clause into all legacy and allowance payments but they didn't. As such the solution has to also lie with the employer. I actually think they'll probably bottle it again but who knows.

[stephen500]

This thread is getting silly, most legacy payments are by definition money for nothing now. That's why they're called legacy payments. TPM doesn't really exist in the form it was originally defined mostly because of staff cuts, just like the huge increase in Work Place Coaches in delivery offices when we were paying that Japanese "professor" a fortune who are mostly doing nothing for their extra £35 a week it was another daft short term idea that the business now regrets.

The question isn't whether anyone "deserves" the money (if you no longer do it, you don't ) but whether it should be put to better use in the overall pay bill and how to deal with or compensate those who have been receiving these allowances for years and expected them to continue.

It isn't an easy question to resolve and the fault lies with the employer, not the employee. If the business had any sense it would have written a life span clause into all legacy and allowance payments but they didn't. As such the solution has to also lie with the employer. I actually think they'll probably bottle it again but who knows.

Not all legacy payments are for doing any thing. Phg £20 was for losing our grade. £13 extra night allowance, is not extra at all, but just retaining that which we had.

[Lounge Lizard]

Terrier. You really are a piece of work. I have never accused a colleague of Cowardice. Don't be putting your type into my words ! Maybe if you stopped running this board like a keyboard warrior more would stay and post here.

Duran,
"running this board like a keyboard warrior" is totally inappropriate given all the excellent work TBT keeps putting in on here.

[SpacePhoenix]

You ought to be a manager with that general level of presumptive ignorance..

Then why don't we see them doing more work on the machines, eg changing stacker belts more often?

[Tman]

Maybe because they have experience of, and instructions for the frequency of belt changing?

[SpacePhoenix]

Maybe because they have experience of, and instructions for the frequency of belt changing?

The stacker belts need changing more then they do, especially when some are worn down to the base material

[Tman]

Some belts can appear to wear badly but still work satisfactorily performance-wise, as RME know full well.
Do you know better than the experts?

[SpacePhoenix]

Some belts can appear to wear badly but still work satisfactorily performance-wise, as RME know full well.
Do you know better than the experts?

We can tell from how badly they stack the mail. The stackers would actually run better if the stacker belts were removed

[heapsy]

Having looked at RM pay proposals presented at the national briefing, I just hope that our union is not prepared to sacrifice our legacy payments to acheive it's pension aim. Sacrificing one group of workers to improve the lot of others is not what our union should be about. Ex PHGs stand to lose £20 (PHG), £10 PBS and for those on nights around £12 in night allowance. A wacking £42 per week or £2000 per annum. On top of that we stand to lose up to £5000 per annum in pensionable allowances. Even if we had a 2.5% pay rise for 3 years, it would only be in the third year, that we would get back to where we would be in 2017 with those cuts.
In 2000 under the way forward, ex PHGs had to wait for about 4 years before we got a pay rise, whilst postman's pay caught up. Don't sell us out.

The issue of legacy payments is always going to affect someone. I think people have to accept that not everyone will be entirely happy. In delivery we lost D2D payments. For me that was £26 a week. Nobody complained about us losing out. Some of my colleagues, those that don't deliver them, gained at the same time, by receiving the delivery supplement. If you look further back, a decision was made to retain the Final Salary pension at the expense of future employees. How many who voted for that, complained about how unfair THAT would be. My guess is a big fat zero. The main issue is the type of, and quality of the pension for ALL.

[stephen500]

Having looked at RM pay proposals presented at the national briefing, I just hope that our union is not prepared to sacrifice our legacy payments to acheive it's pension aim. Sacrificing one group of workers to improve the lot of others is not what our union should be about. Ex PHGs stand to lose £20 (PHG), £10 PBS and for those on nights around £12 in night allowance. A wacking £42 per week or £2000 per annum. On top of that we stand to lose up to £5000 per annum in pensionable allowances. Even if we had a 2.5% pay rise for 3 years, it would only be in the third year, that we would get back to where we would be in 2017 with those cuts.
In 2000 under the way forward, ex PHGs had to wait for about 4 years before we got a pay rise, whilst postman's pay caught up. Don't sell us out.

The issue of legacy payments is always going to affect someone. I think people have to accept that not everyone will be entirely happy. In delivery we lost D2D payments. For me that was £26 a week. Nobody complained about us losing out. Some of my colleagues, those that don't deliver them, gained at the same time, by receiving the delivery supplement. If you look further back, a decision was made to retain the Final Salary pension at the expense of future employees. How many who voted for that, complained about how unfair THAT would be. My guess is a big fat zero. The main issue is the type of, and quality of the pension for ALL.

Losing £42 a week is a lot and yes I am complaining. You also had a pay rise under the way forward and our pay was frozen for up to 4 years while you caught up.

[heapsy]

Having looked at RM pay proposals presented at the national briefing, I just hope that our union is not prepared to sacrifice our legacy payments to acheive it's pension aim. Sacrificing one group of workers to improve the lot of others is not what our union should be about. Ex PHGs stand to lose £20 (PHG), £10 PBS and for those on nights around £12 in night allowance. A wacking £42 per week or £2000 per annum. On top of that we stand to lose up to £5000 per annum in pensionable allowances. Even if we had a 2.5% pay rise for 3 years, it would only be in the third year, that we would get back to where we would be in 2017 with those cuts.
In 2000 under the way forward, ex PHGs had to wait for about 4 years before we got a pay rise, whilst postman's pay caught up. Don't sell us out.

The issue of legacy payments is always going to affect someone. I think people have to accept that not everyone will be entirely happy. In delivery we lost D2D payments. For me that was £26 a week. Nobody complained about us losing out. Some of my colleagues, those that don't deliver them, gained at the same time, by receiving the delivery supplement. If you look further back, a decision was made to retain the Final Salary pension at the expense of future employees. How many who voted for that, complained about how unfair THAT would be. My guess is a big fat zero. The main issue is the type of, and quality of the pension for ALL.

Losing £42 a week is a lot and yes I am complaining. You also had a pay rise under the way forward and our pay was frozen for up to 4 years while you caught up.

If you work in processing then you get a bonus. In delivery we get nothing. Apart from that is, the ear ache from managers because we are unable to cope with the daily onslaught of mail, without going over our duty spans. The bullying that goes on is relentless. What you have to remember is this, these payments are dying out. As people retire or leave, fewer are receiving them. In our office, we had two receiving PHGs allowance, even though they were no longer performing that duty. One has since retired on ill health. That leaves one. There are two people receiving driving allowance. As people retire, these payments will stop. Delivery staff gave up for the benefit of all. We lost our early shift payments because of a move in start time, = less pensionable pay. So should everyone else. Taking it to the extreme, what you are saying is a former PHG in a small town should receive their payment, to the detriment of all. Crazy. We have to move forward to improve pay and pensions for ALL. I notice you never mentioned the pension scheme you are in. Section B, almost certainly. That was my point. As for catching up, we should never have been on different payments apart from shift allowances in the first place. BTW, £26 over 47 weeks ( I've allowed for 5 weeks annual leave ) comes to £1222. Non pensionable. Therefore delivery staff, despite being the work horses of the business, get paid less and don't last as long in the job. (knees, hips?) IF I manage to get to 60, I will barely have enough pension to live off, despite nearly 39 years of pension rights. This is not only due to the split into different pensions and possible reduction for early payment. It is also due to the selfish attitude of those, probably including yourself, (if you joined RM before 1st April 1987) who thought only of yourselves all those years ago. Something that is still continuing.