RPI pension increase

[milly]

I'm talking about unfunded inflation proof rises.

So it is the fault of section B pensioners? Potentially your ex and current colleagues amongst them!

If a company makes enough money to pay their workers in line with inflation then that's perfectly fine.

Despite the fact it also has an effect on inflation?

If the Workers have to pick up the tab then that is wrong.

So that's anyone who gets a pay increase below inflation?

Sounds to me as if you're picking and choosing. You won't be able to do that when the world ends and the parasites are eating you from inside!

The UK economy doesn't produce enough wealth for the demands placed upon it.
If you are happy for your stored labour to be stolen from you then that's up to you.
Say a Civil Service Pensioner was receiving £20,000 per annum and their Pension went up last year with inflation by 10.1%.
How much would I have to put in my Pension to receive the extra £2020 per annum that the Pensioner in my example received?
And why should the tax payer have to fund them?

[heapsy]

This is slightly off topic, but do we know what the historical increases of the pension schemes are? Just curious.

[RobertT]

I note that you quote me, but make no attempt to answer my points!

The UK economy doesn't produce enough wealth for the demands placed upon it.

At the moment, I wouldn't disagree! But that doesn't mean that will always be the case and we're all f*cked.

If you are happy for your stored labour to be stolen from you then that's up to you.

I don't think many people are happy with inflation as high as it's been, everyone will have been affected to one degree or another.
But I'm not obsessed with what others have. I'd rather concentrate on my own wealth and make what I have work for me. How else do you think I've managed to retire at 55 during a cost of living crisis?

Say a Civil Service Pensioner was receiving £20,000 per annum and their Pension went up last year with inflation by 10.1%.
How much would I have to put in my Pension to receive the extra £2020 per annum that the Pensioner in my example received?

But you do seem obsessed with what others have!

And why should the tax payer have to fund them?

You could argue that all schemes should be funded and that's a perfectly fair point. I believe a re-think is needed on that front.
But where are they going to find £2.3 Trillion to fund that public sector liability?
Those civil servants, teachers, etc have just as much right to get the pension they've been promised, as anyone else does.

And more pertinent to us, where are they going to find the £50.9 Billion(as of 2022 accounts) that is needed to pay the pensions of RMSPS members? We have a right to ours too!

No doubt you'll be only too happy for the tax payer to pay all your pre 2012 RM pension!

[RobertT]

This is slightly off topic, but do we know what the historical increases of the pension schemes are? Just curious.

The September rates of CPI and RPI over the years can be found fairly easily online with the help of any search engine.

They will tell you that in the vast majority of years, RPI has been higher than CPI. Something that Milly seems happy to ignore.

[milly]

I note that you quote me, but make no attempt to answer my points!

The UK economy doesn't produce enough wealth for the demands placed upon it.

At the moment, I wouldn't disagree! But that doesn't mean that will always be the case and we're all f*cked.

If you are happy for your stored labour to be stolen from you then that's up to you.

I don't think many people are happy with inflation as high as it's been, everyone will have been affected to one degree or another.
But I'm not obsessed with what others have. I'd rather concentrate on my own wealth and make what I have work for me. How else do you think I've managed to retire at 55 during a cost of living crisis?

Say a Civil Service Pensioner was receiving £20,000 per annum and their Pension went up last year with inflation by 10.1%.
How much would I have to put in my Pension to receive the extra £2020 per annum that the Pensioner in my example received?

But you do seem obsessed with what others have!

And why should the tax payer have to fund them?

You could argue that all schemes should be funded and that's a perfectly fair point. I believe a re-think is needed on that front.
But where are they going to find £2.3 Trillion to fund that public sector liability?
Those civil servants, teachers, etc have just as much right to get the pension they've been promised, as anyone else does.

And more pertinent to us, where are they going to find the £50.9 Billion(as of 2022 accounts) that is needed to pay the pensions of RMSPS members? We have a right to ours too!

No doubt you'll be only too happy for the tax payer to pay all your pre 2012 RM pension!

With regard to our 2012 RM Pension was that not used to pay off some of the National Debt, so we are still owed money off the Government even though they have blown it all.
I'm not obsessed with what other people have as I am on track to retire at 55 myself!
You still haven't been able to tell me why low paid hard working people should have to pay for extremely generous unfunded Public Sector Pensions.

[renrag40]

Milly, will you be handing back your 11.3% rise in your DBCBS accrued funds up to 31/3/23 as declared on the 16/3/23?
It is clearly inflationary based on the fact that Royal Mail do not make a profit..... is it not?

[renrag40]

Correction: funds accrued in you up to 31/3/22.

[milly]

Milly, will you be handing back your 11.3% rise in your DBCBS accrued funds up to 31/3/23 as declared on the 16/3/23?
It is clearly inflationary based on the fact that Royal Mail do not make a profit..... is it not?

I joined the RMDCP
My RMDCP Pension was transferred to my SIPP a couple of months ago.
Currently I don't pay into any Royal Mail Pension scheme.
Anyhow I would assume that the increase in the DBCBS wasn't funded by the tax payer .

[RobertT]

I note that you quote me, but make no attempt to answer my points!

The UK economy doesn't produce enough wealth for the demands placed upon it.

At the moment, I wouldn't disagree! But that doesn't mean that will always be the case and we're all f*cked.

If you are happy for your stored labour to be stolen from you then that's up to you.

I don't think many people are happy with inflation as high as it's been, everyone will have been affected to one degree or another.
But I'm not obsessed with what others have. I'd rather concentrate on my own wealth and make what I have work for me. How else do you think I've managed to retire at 55 during a cost of living crisis?

Say a Civil Service Pensioner was receiving £20,000 per annum and their Pension went up last year with inflation by 10.1%.
How much would I have to put in my Pension to receive the extra £2020 per annum that the Pensioner in my example received?

But you do seem obsessed with what others have!

And why should the tax payer have to fund them?

You could argue that all schemes should be funded and that's a perfectly fair point. I believe a re-think is needed on that front.
But where are they going to find £2.3 Trillion to fund that public sector liability?
Those civil servants, teachers, etc have just as much right to get the pension they've been promised, as anyone else does.

And more pertinent to us, where are they going to find the £50.9 Billion(as of 2022 accounts) that is needed to pay the pensions of RMSPS members? We have a right to ours too!

No doubt you'll be only too happy for the tax payer to pay all your pre 2012 RM pension!

With regard to our 2012 RM Pension was that not used to pay off some of the National Debt, so we are still owed money off the Government even though they have blown it all.
I'm not obsessed with what other people have as I am on track to retire at 55 myself!
You still haven't been able to tell me why low paid hard working people should have to pay for extremely generous unfunded Public Sector Pensions.

And you still haven't told me what the alternatives are.
You're quick to say the workers shouldn't be funding their pensions, but you haven't mentioned anything about a solution?

[milly]

A solution would be for Pensions to be fully funded by the people who contribute to them.
If you can't see the inequality whereby low paid workers have to fund Public Sector Pensoners, which many of whom can retire at 55 on extremely generous inflation protected Pensions, then you seem quite happy with such a disparity in our society.

[RobertT]

I joined the RMDCP
My RMDCP Pension was transferred to my SIPP a couple of months ago.
Currently I don't pay into any Royal Mail Pension scheme.
Anyhow I would assume that the increase in the DBCBS wasn't funded by the tax payer .

It sounds like you're biting your nose off to spite your face. Why would you turn down free money?

[RobertT]

A solution would be for Pensions to be fully funded by the people who contribute to them.

So would that apply to everybody, or just the parasitic teachers and nurses?
With no employer contributions either?
Sounds like many people won't be retiring at all!

And how do you suggest funding the public sector pensions that are already in place?

If you can't see the inequality whereby low paid workers have to fund Public Sector Pensoners, which many of whom can retire at 55 on extremely generous inflation protected Pensions, then you seem quite happy with such a disparity in our society.

No, I'm just being realistic. Whether it's right or wrong, the current system is in place and moaning won't change it any time soon!

As I've already said, it needs a rethink. They've already reduced peoples benefits which in theory should see a long term reduction in liabilities, but going forward they should be looking at a funded scheme.

Maybe some of the higher paid public sector workers could receive less in employer contributions on a sliding scale, as they earn more. Encouraging them to make up the difference.
Perhaps DC or CDC might be suitable as there won't be any ongoing and unknown liabilities for tax payers to fund. Other workers' DB schemes have closed and now have no choice but DC, so why not public sector?

There's two far more realistic solutions than yours!

Whatever the solution going forward, it doesn't get away from the fact that there's a £2.3 Trillion public sector liability now. That isn't just going to disappear because you think the system is unfair.

[milly]

I joined the RMDCP
My RMDCP Pension was transferred to my SIPP a couple of months ago.
Currently I don't pay into any Royal Mail Pension scheme.
Anyhow I would assume that the increase in the DBCBS wasn't funded by the tax payer .

It sounds like you're biting your nose off to spite your face. Why would you turn down free money?

I'm close to the income tax limit when I come to draw my Pension at 55 so I'm concentrating on investing in my Stocks and Shares ISA to receive tax free dividends.
No point paying extra tax to fund the Public Sector Pensioners .

[milly]

A solution would be for Pensions to be fully funded by the people who contribute to them.

So would that apply to everybody, or just the parasitic teachers and nurses?
With no employer contributions either?
Sounds like many people won't be retiring at all!

And how do you suggest funding the public sector pensions that are already in place?

If you can't see the inequality whereby low paid workers have to fund Public Sector Pensoners, which many of whom can retire at 55 on extremely generous inflation protected Pensions, then you seem quite happy with such a disparity in our society.

No, I'm just being realistic. Whether it's right or wrong, the current system is in place and moaning won't change it any time soon!

As I've already said, it needs a rethink. They've already reduced peoples benefits which in theory should see a long term reduction in liabilities, but going forward they should be looking at a funded scheme.

Maybe some of the higher paid public sector workers could receive less in employer contributions on a sliding scale, as they earn more. Encouraging them to make up the difference.
Perhaps DC or CDC might be suitable as there won't be any ongoing and unknown liabilities for tax payers to fund. Other workers' DB schemes have closed and now have no choice but DC, so why not public sector?

There's two far more realistic solutions than yours!

Whatever the solution going forward, it doesn't get away from the fact that there's a £2.3 Trillion public sector liability now. That isn't just going to disappear because you think the system is unfair.

Where did I mention that I wasn't in favour of employer contributions?
No idea why you are trying to disagree with me when you agree with most of what I have said.

[RobertT]

I joined the RMDCP
My RMDCP Pension was transferred to my SIPP a couple of months ago.
Currently I don't pay into any Royal Mail Pension scheme.
Anyhow I would assume that the increase in the DBCBS wasn't funded by the tax payer .

It sounds like you're biting your nose off to spite your face. Why would you turn down free money?

I'm close to the income tax limit when I come to draw my Pension at 55 so I'm concentrating on investing in my Stocks and Shares ISA to receive tax free dividends.
No point paying extra tax to fund the Public Sector Pensioners .

You do realise pensions are by far the best way to make your money grow, even if it means paying tax on the way out? As long as you stay within the 20% band.
For someone who doesn't want to pay tax, you're doing a good job of paying too much!