FORCING PENSION CHANGE IS LIKE RAPE

[DirtyHarry]

again i implore you guys to listen and educate yourselves in the subject

In other words, we should learn to know our place...............Sorry, not for me, thanks all the same.

[andy2007]

ive read this whole thread and again the same people talking the same crap.clearly they don't listen just regurgitate .

they stopped paying because under a conservative government there was so much money in the pensions they didnt need to.it was running away with itself.ie...surpluses
boom labour gets elected on a no DIRECT tax raising platform and windfall taxes.(unions funded there election that's you)gordon then taxes all pension contributions and funds ....there goes your frikin money
then stocks/shares collapse there goes your money

now if royal mail had of paid in there part that would now be gone too
so you frikin lucky they didnt and have to repay it now,which there already doing.

this is fact
not the shite that keep being brought up about getting the government to pay it.(rm already is)
and nighty already told you correctly they arnt legally allowed to anyway.(not that they would)


again i implore you guys to listen and educate yourselves in the subject

Let's get a few things strait, shall we?
1) When I found out the details of WHY they took the payment holiday, I admitted my mistake, and haven't gone on about it since.

2) When I heard that it was (alegedly) illegal for the Government to bail us out. I grudgingly backed down on that too.

3) Now, they are bailing out the irresponsible gamblers (aka Bankers) with Taxpayers (our) money.

4) If it is Legal for them to take over control of Northern Rock, and bail out the Banks in general. Then how can it be illegal for them to bail out our Pension Scheme. Considering that (at least for the moment) we are ALSO OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT!

5) You say that we should educate ourselves in these matters. So how about explaining to us, how it's Legal to bail out one Government owned Business (Northern Rock), but NOT another (Royal Mail).

It is extremely illogical, and looks (to me) like they are manipulating the Law to their own advantage. Of course I may be wrong. But if I am. I'd really like to understand the situation properly.

Just please remember Cantypeandshouts: if I'm wrong about something, I admit it. When you are wrong (as you have been on occasion), you never admit it, or apologise. So you tell me: Who's the Adult, and who needs to grow up?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The one galling fact in all this is that the Pensions of senior management are not affected. If they treated themselves the same way as the treat us instead of giving themselves a bigger than inflation pay rise and protecting their gilt edged pensions then I would be more sympathetic to the changes. After all good leader only asks his subordinates to do what they themselves are prepared to do or accept.

[Vulcan]

The one galling fact in all this is that the Pensions of senior management are not affected. If they treated themselves the same way as the treat us instead of giving themselves a bigger than inflation pay rise and protecting their gilt edged pensions then I would be more sympathetic to the changes. After all good leader only asks his subordinates to do what they themselves are prepared to do or accept.

Well said TBT, but then again it just shows the calibre of RM's so called senior management.

[DGP1]

Something that seems to have been overlooked by certain people is that no matter what, all the money was going to go to the government anyway (whether through the profits or through the tax the government takes) the only difference I see is that the senior management got extra bonus payments for additional profits.

[Tman]

[
4

) If it is Legal for them to take over control of Northern Rock, and bail out the Banks in general. Then how can it be illegal for them to bail out our Pension Scheme. Considering that (at least for the moment) we are ALSO OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT!

You're comparing apples with oranges there.
Governments have been bailing out banks and other financial institution for deades, as they can't risk a panicing public causing a run on the currency and the subsequent financial instabilty.
If our pension fund collapsed in some way, other than us, who cares? No-one is the answer, it wouldn't matter in the slightest to the economy or the general public, and we'd just have to get on with it.
As for Northern Rock, their stock is housing, and government won't lose anything on that loan. Nothing's a safer investment than housing....

[DGP1]

[
4

) If it is Legal for them to take over control of Northern Rock, and bail out the Banks in general. Then how can it be illegal for them to bail out our Pension Scheme. Considering that (at least for the moment) we are ALSO OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT!

You're comparing apples with oranges there.
Governments have been bailing out banks and other financial institution for deades, as they can't risk a panicing public causing a run on the currency and the subsequent financial instabilty.
If our pension fund collapsed in some way, other than us, who cares? No-one is the answer, it wouldn't matter in the slightest to the economy or the general public, and we'd just have to get on with it.
As for Northern Rock, their stock is housing, and government won't lose anything on that loan. Nothing's a safer investment than housing....

Try telling that to those who've bought their houses and now cannot afford to pay the inflated cost that they paid (all driven by a greedy and unethical banking system)

[axeman]

Utter rubbish 'mr tea man' what happened at 'bearings' where the infamous mr N Leason caused a slight problem ?

[Night Tonic]

A lot of this is armchair militancy. Whinge, grumble and misinformation. For the life of me I don't know why you bother going into work.

[Vulcan]

[
4

) If it is Legal for them to take over control of Northern Rock, and bail out the Banks in general. Then how can it be illegal for them to bail out our Pension Scheme. Considering that (at least for the moment) we are ALSO OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT!

If our pension fund collapsed in some way, other than us, who cares? No-one is the answer, it wouldn't matter in the slightest to the economy or the general public, and we'd just have to get on with it.


As for Northern Rock, their stock is housing, and government won't lose anything on that loan. Nothing's a safer investment than housing....

So what is the PPF (Pension Protection Fund) that the government introduced recently?

If their stock is housing & as you say nothing's a safer investment than housing, why did they need bailing out to the tune of between £55 - 100 Billion?

[andy2007]

[
4

) If it is Legal for them to take over control of Northern Rock, and bail out the Banks in general. Then how can it be illegal for them to bail out our Pension Scheme. Considering that (at least for the moment) we are ALSO OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT!

You're comparing apples with oranges there.
Governments have been bailing out banks and other financial institution for deades, as they can't risk a panicing public causing a run on the currency and the subsequent financial instabilty.
If our pension fund collapsed in some way, other than us, who cares? No-one is the answer, it wouldn't matter in the slightest to the economy or the general public, and we'd just have to get on with it.
As for Northern Rock, their stock is housing, and government won't lose anything on that loan. Nothing's a safer investment than housing....

I know that from the point of view of the Country in general, it's more important to protect the Banks, than our Pensions. It's the Legal position which is confusing me.

If it's simply a case of the Government not thinking that our Pensions are important enough to spend large amounts of Taxpayers money on, then why hide behind legal arguments. If it is genuinely a case of European Law, then does anyone know why one is legal, and the other isn't?
I really don't understand. All I want, is to understand WTF is going on. Is it the Law, or the indifference of the Labour Party, which is to blame?

[Tman]

[

Try telling that to those who've bought their houses and now cannot afford to pay the inflated cost that they paid (all driven by a greedy and unethical banking system

Thought you were not answering me? That lasted all of two days then...

Do you really believe what you've just written, or is it a just a negative riposte for the sake of it, 'cos it's got absolutely FA to do with the safety net the government is obliged to provide to the biggest financial institutions.

[Tman]

Utter rubbish 'mr tea man' what happened at 'bearings' where the infamous mr N Leason caused a slight problem ?

Suppose you tell me your version. I'm all ears.

{Getting a cup of tea and packet of biscuits and waiting with eager anticipation for the explanation of someone's inept dealings in a private bank somehow prove that the government DON'T bail out the financial institutions. Should be good}

It's " Barings" by the way. "Bearings" are in the wheels of your red bike

[Tman]

If their stock is housing & as you say nothing's a safer investment than housing, why did they need bailing out to the tune of between £55 - 100 Billion

Is this a rhetorical question? They didn't lose the money through the value of the housing going down, they lost it through maladministration and poor business decisions.
Have you ever seen the value of housing drop long-term?

[Vulcan]

If their stock is housing & as you say nothing's a safer investment than housing, why did they need bailing out to the tune of between £55 - 100 Billion

Is this a rhetorical question? They didn't lose the money through the value of the housing going down, they lost it through maladministration and poor business decisions.
Have you ever seen the value of housing drop long-term?

So why have the government saved the Directors/Business Leaders because of their maladministration & bad business decisions? How many of those responsible are still with Northern Rock, how many have left with 'golden handshakes' and are now employed by new banking/financial institutions?

It seems to the general public that any management that 'cock-up' big time are rewarded for failure. After all the management 'mantra' is always 'You've GOT to pay high renumeration packages or you get monkeys'. Yet this is never applied to the workforce.

The value of the housing stock held by Northern Rock won't be near the £55 - 100 Billion for a very long time, is that a good use of public money?

And as we are finding out, it was only Northern Rock to begin with, now many more banking institutions are guilty of the same as NR but maybe to lesser degrees. So much for the integrity/honesty of banking business.