LGV Drivers

[DownwardSpiral]

Driver re-sign now started at NDC, after 5 months of Union locking themselves away they’ve presented the worst set of duties ever, still, can’t complain - they’ll just tell the members they could have been a lot worse but for their negotiations with the management.

The Union did ask for input at the start of the process, and all suggestions have been ignored. There are still duties with split breaks, breaks at customers where there is no room or facilities. Night duties with a rest day in the middle of week, many with fixed weekend work, some have working every Sat and Sun. Weekend shifts mostly long shifts.
Suggested that we’d prefer a mix of Duties where some had overtime, but not all, after all - isn’t overtime optional ? However most have overtime - after all, that’s what Union thinks we want, they always pick duties with the most as they know they’ll rarely carry them out. So much for work/life balance. A driver asked about wanting a Duty with basic hours and was told by Rep that he was lazy ! Maybe we’ll be able to bring children to work to sit in the cab, at least we’ll be able to spend a bit of time with them that way.

I reckon that as the re-pick works through a great many will be leaving. Why would someone with kids or an expectation of a life outside work put up with terrible shifts when there are so many jobs out there where you can virtually choose your times ? Certainly not going to put up with it for 20 years until they’ve worked their way up the seniority. Already 20 out of recent 43 recruits left, and some with several years with Royal Mail declared their intention to go.

Going to be an interesting Christmas period, no doubt the usual vast quantities of vehicles will be hired, and they’ll just clog up the yards as there’ll be no-one to drive them. I’m sure the Planners are all over it.

[datasaint]

I've heard similar from other VOCs.

How can you expect to retain new-starts when they are literally given the worst shifts from the very beginning. The subject of seniority is a questionable one, because a lot of your senior guys as it stands came from the old Royal Mail and the old ways of working which isn't the same as the being stuck on weekends or nights for 10 - 20 years before you climb the seniority ladder.

[oldpostie]

What old ways are these?
As a new starter I was 6am spare for a very long time, then I went on to cover a nights / early rotation, nights started Sunday night and finished Saturday morning , earlies started Monday morning and finished Saturday afternoon, I had to be back in Sunday night for the following night shift.
The nights to earlies was an awful shift pattern, once I had some seniority I was able to pick onto vacant advertised duties. We have all been there.

[aiden01]

I've heard similar from other VOCs.

How can you expect to retain new-starts when they are literally given the worst shifts from the very beginning. The subject of seniority is a questionable one, because a lot of your senior guys as it stands came from the old Royal Mail and the old ways of working which isn't the same as the being stuck on weekends or nights for 10 - 20 years before you climb the seniority ladder.

What is the old royal mail and the old ways of working??

[renrag40]

Probably the one from before they started in RM. what do new starters honestly expect? To just start in the job and be given whatever they fancy? What about the people who have put up with RM for 20, 30 or 40 years? Are they supposed to do all the crappy duties because new starters don’t want to do them? Get a grip!!

[DownwardSpiral]

The whole seniority thing is a topic that i’m sure has been hotly debated on this forum many times, it exists, is easily understood and I doubt that there’s a fairer alternative. Don’t want to kick that off, only to say that people don’t have to “put up with Royal Mail for 20, 30 or 40 years” as per the previous comment - no-one’s manacled to their workspace, and there’s a big scary world out there !

I’ve also spoken to drivers from other VOC’s, and - yes - they also feel that the Duties this time are terrible. Everyone seems to be travelling to do each other’s work. Folk think that Royal Mail use the “budget” version of Paragon which has spat out a load of rubbish and then the Planners have compounded the disaster by sticking their expertise in the mix.

I feel that the Union at NDC has behaved against the wishes of the members for the reasons I gave before. Added to those is the fact that there were no meetings before or after to express views. The Reps have certainly kept out of view for the last few months ! I’m sure that if one was challenged about the Duties they’ve cobbled together they’ll just say that they would have been worse had it not been for their negotiations with management, a “get out of jail free” card to suit all situations.

Maybe it’s all part of a master plan - Create crap Duties, No-one wants to join, Existing drivers start to leave, Have to raise wages to retain and attract new recruits ! ? !

[renrag40]

I doubt the master plan theory holds water given that RM are basically recruiting anyone they can find with a class 1 licence...... and have been doing for some time.

[SpacePhoenix]

I doubt the master plan theory holds water given that RM are basically recruiting anyone they can find with a class 1 licence...... and have been doing for some time.

I was reading that somewhere that a few firms were poaching bin lorry drivers from local councils

[NWpostie]

Before anyone blames Brexit for the shortages, Europe is also having shortages of their own, the reason why Britain is worse affected is lack of investment and training of new drivers as business are relying on European drivers especially Polish drivers as they are cheaper and it suits the business plan of companies for short term gain thinking it will continue, Brexit is part of it the pandemic is also bigger part it, the main reason is living standards and wages in Poland and Eastern Europe have improved so they earn nearly the same money and Still be near their families, so its not suprising that they went home.


After 1997, 7.5t category were taken off new licences, you needed to take a separate test, erosion of T&Cs of drivers, CPC all have contributed to drivers shortages, I knew this is going to be a future problem as usual the government and driving agencies have buried their head and hoped it would go away.

[SpacePhoenix]

Before anyone blames Brexit for the shortages, Europe is also having shortages of their own, the reason why Britain is worse affected is lack of investment and training of new drivers as business are relying on European drivers especially Polish drivers as they are cheaper and it suits the business plan of companies for short term gain thinking it will continue, Brexit is part of it the pandemic is also bigger part it, the main reason is living standards and wages in Poland and Eastern Europe have improved so they earn nearly the same money and Still be near their families, so its not suprising that they went home.


After 1997, 7.5t category were taken off new licences, you needed to take a separate test, erosion of T&Cs of drivers, CPC all have contributed to drivers shortages, I knew this is going to be a future problem as usual the government and driving agencies have buried their head and hoped it would go away.

I thought I read in the last couple of days that both the US and China have also got problems with a lack of HGV drivers so it looks like it's possibly a worldwide problem. Maybe it's the result of Covid changing people's shopping habits?

[DownwardSpiral]

I doubt the master plan theory holds water given that RM are basically recruiting anyone they can find with a class 1 licence...... and have been doing for some time.

The suggestion I was making is that the Union has created such a terrible Duty set that business will need to pay more to retain and recruit drivers.

Yes, RM are TRYING to recruit anyone with a Class 1 license but as soon as the applicant sees that the job description is a pack of lies they’re orf ! Atherstone had 7 walk out of the interview as soon as they realised what hours they will be expected to do.

[Drivebigredthing]

What type of shifts would a new RM lgv driver at Atherstone be getting. Asking for a friend before he starts. He is having his doubts after being unable to get any answers at the interview apart from the we operate 24/7 so flexability is a must line. Weekends and nights are fine but not every weekend.

[DownwardSpiral]

What type of shifts would a new RM lgv driver at Atherstone be getting. Asking for a friend before he starts. He is having his doubts after being unable to get any answers at the interview apart from the we operate 24/7 so flexability is a must line. Weekends and nights are fine but not every weekend.

Being a new VOC, Atherstone will attract Royal Mail drivers that maybe have “only” 10 or 20 years seniority (!) as they will be in a better position on the pick order than if they stayed where they are, be it Cov Parcelforce, Leicester, Birmingham, NDC etc. I know of several that have transferred from NDC for that reason, and also it may just be nearer home for them. Of course this doesn’t help new starters with their options !
If I see any Atherstone drivers when I go in I’ll ask what the Newbies should expect, but don’t raise your hopes !

[DownwardSpiral]

Oh yeah, reminded that - should your mate get a shift that involves weekend working, the pay rate is the same as Mon - Fri, no enhancement. Already some drivers that are lucky enough to work Mon - Fri with RM are doing weekend work with other companies that pay better than RM o/time. Can choose hours want to work ( RM weekend shifts tend to be big hours that not everyone wants) and as long as it’s declared who cares !

[Drivebigredthing]

Thanks for the replys. No higher rate for weekend working sod that have they looked at whats on offer around that area. !!!
Will stay on RM agency where you call the shots.This seniority has its place but then it should be decent rota systems where everyone does their share of weekends or 4on4 off etc.
Management should be saying After 20+ yrs your not leaving but its a new 24/7 world now. So heres your new rota like it or lump it.