Intergrated Mail Processor Operators!

Post by **postal_jedi** » 18 Nov 2007, 01:10

All laughing aside. These activities are still wrong. Surely it is in the interest of the IMP operator to keep him/herself busy.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Nov 2007, 09:52

the other main offenders of this are the engineers, one told me only the other week that because he was an engineer he was exempt from this rule, which is utter shite.

And----

As for the engineer, well I haven't paid much attention to them and couldn't really argue if or not he is exempt. If he is not he is a fool.

Until you know someone's job, it's best to keep opinions to yourselves.
The H&S rules are different for a "Competent Person" as Engineers are termed, and many tasks would be prolonged or even impossible without over-riding certain safety features.
Normally such over-rides are strictly hidden for fear of the old "monkey see, monkey do" scenario.

Post by **postal_jedi** » 18 Nov 2007, 10:10

Tman wrote:
the other main offenders of this are the engineers, one told me only the other week that because he was an engineer he was exempt from this rule, which is utter shite.
And----

As for the engineer, well I haven't paid much attention to them and couldn't really argue if or not he is exempt. If he is not he is a fool.
Until you know someone's job, it's best to keep opinions to yourselves.
The H&S rules are different for a "Competent Person" as Engineers are termed, and many tasks would be prolonged or even impossible without over-riding certain safety features.
Normally such over-rides are strictly hidden for fear of the old "monkey see, monkey do" scenario.

If you actually took the time to read my comment, I fully admit that I can't argue the case. I have merely said that if the engineer is supposed to be using the stop button feature and isn't because of what ever reason, then he/she is a fool. Competent the engineer may be, but as you infer he/she is surrounded and out numbered by incompetent monkeys (not my description), who could easily harm him/her, themselves or others. I do believe that in such an occurrence the engineer will be at fault as they haven't followed correct safety procedure. I would also add that I have witnessed an engineer trap his fingers in a roller door, but I'm sure this is a rare and isolated incident, roller doors don't break that much!

Post by **dvbuk55** » 18 Nov 2007, 11:13

baldrick wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:I can only say that in 20 years I have never set foot inside an MC, an MC Gymnasium, an MC Shower room, an MC Canteen or any other facilities that are considered necessary for MC Staff that are totally alien to those of us used to working for a living.
You haven't missed anything mate!

That's true - except of course the subsidies.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Nov 2007, 13:12

[

If you actually took the time to read my comment, I fully admit that I can't argue the case. I have merely said that if the engineer is supposed to be using the stop button feature and isn't because of what ever reason, then he/she is a fool.

I know you said that, and my reply was that a judgement can't be made unless you/anyone has full knowlege of the situation, therefore to draw the conclusion that if he doesn't follow a certain course of action, then he is a fool, is nonsensical.

Competent the engineer may be, but as you infer he/she is surrounded and out numbered by incompetent monkeys (not my description), who could easily harm him/her, themselves or others

.

Not my description either, but an apt quotation given the dangers involved and operators' willingness to mess with things they shouldn't.

Post by **postal_jedi** » 18 Nov 2007, 15:31

I'm afraid Tman a judgement can be made and I have made one, well it's really just an opinion actually far from a judgement. If there are H&S rules to follow then breaking them for whatever reason is foolish. Just because you deem engineers to be competent doesn't mean they are above H&S rules, what rules apply to them should be followed. Damon Hill is a competent driver it doesn't mean he is allowed to drive above the speed limit. Under your reasoning a competent operator will not need to follow their H&S procedures. Any engineer finding that his/her ability repairing faults is hindered by following the H&S procedures that apply to engineers, needs to take the issue to higher management. It is not an excuse for him/her to decide he/she can disregard their safety and the safety of others around them. All I simply said and still stand by is that if an engineer is supposed to press a stop button before opening a cover on a machine and doesn't do this he/she is a fool. It is far from nonsensicle, it is common sense. Something I'd expect from a competent person. I haven't at any time said that engineers have to press the button, I fully admitted that I am unaware as to the scope of the engineers H&S rules.

L Tommo · Post by **L Tommo** » 18 Nov 2007, 17:33

Tman wrote:
L Tommo wrote:TPM ... Working on ANY MECH we all have to be TPM trained... Or as Star dust said.. YOU shouldnt be on there.. H&S.
Not true. To work any mech you SHOULD have had training (as in "Push this button here and empty that when it's full") but as we all know, even that scant training is often missed, but TPM is different again and many managers see that one TPM-trained operator per machine is adequate.
The originator of this thread is correct in his views though, and RM has turned too many blind eyes in it's dealings with the operators. They frequently do get away with working practices not to be listed on a public forum, and the CWU must take a share of the blame for that.

WELL Tman... You show me where it says that you only need a TPM trained operator and nothing else???

If you cant then YOU and all your work mates SHOULDNT work on ANY MECH that a screw asks you to because the non trained person is not covered by RM and if anyone was injured ur not insured and could sue RM.. Thats the law...

I would refuse point blank to work with anyone NON TPM trained full stop... ITS ALL OF OUR RESPONCERBILTYS H&S... Not just screws or TPM trained posties... EVERYONES....

I agree if anyone is not acting in the TPM Guildlines or not taking due care around a MECH machine then ask em not to and to adhere to the TPM guildlines....

Its just another RM ploy to get anyone working for em when they should be trained... MOST SCREWS CANT MAN/WOMAN MANAGE! FULL STOP..

OUT

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Nov 2007, 18:21

WELL Tman... You show me where it says that you only need a TPM trained operator and nothing else???

I can't, but you don't necessarily have to be TPM trained to run the machines safely and competently. Our MCM has said repeatedly when asked for more TPM training that a) he's not going to pay for the training and allowances out of his budget, and b) he dosn't feel it's good value anyway, as the TPM trained operators do no more than the barest minimum and certainly not enough to justify the weekly allowance. That's his stance, and he's been taken to task for it several times, but things don't change.

If you cant then YOU and all your work mates SHOULDNT work on ANY MECH that a screw asks you to because the non trained person is not covered by RM and if anyone was injured ur not insured and could sue RM.. Thats the law...

Nice idea, but I wonder if anyone thought to tell the Polish casual attempting to start an MTT the other week? Certainly didn't seem like it....

I would refuse point blank to work with anyone NON TPM trained full stop... ITS ALL OF OUR RESPONCERBILTYS H&S... Not just screws or TPM trained posties... EVERYONES....

H&S in RM has been a joke for years.

Its just another RM ploy to get anyone working for em when they should be trained... MOST SCREWS CANT MAN/WOMAN MANAGE! FULL STOP..

No disagreement there, but then RM doesn't effectively train the errr "screws" as you call them. Any non-RM people reading this would be horrified at the archaic way managers are made in RM, so I'm not going to tell them......

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 18 Nov 2007, 18:33

.

Just because you deem engineers to be competent doesn't mean they are above H&S rules, what rules apply to them should be followed.

I don't deem them, it's implicit in the training,qualifications attained, and employment status.
"Competent" is a legal term rather than a rather nice description, and means your responsibilites and knowlege are more and above that of a non-trained person. Equally, in a law court a competent person can be convicted of negligence etc and can't use the "I don't know" method of defence.
I can happily and legally stick my hands into a three-phase 415V cabinet, whereas a postie or manager doing the same would be up for a walk to the local Job Centre for even opening the lid, yet we'd both fry to crispy bacon just the same.
The rules are different.

Damon Hill is a competent driver it doesn't mean he is allowed to drive above the speed limit. Under your reasoning a competent operator will not need to follow their H&S procedures.

See above.

Post by **postal_jedi** » 18 Nov 2007, 19:45

Ahhh! Tman so this is what this is about. I'm assuming you're an Engineer, who obviously doesn't use the stop buttons. I Think you'll find that you're legal competence arguement would only make the case against someone breaking H&S procedures worse. Safety features put into anyones job are there not only to protect the employee but to protect others around the foolish employee who thinks they know better. If you are an Engineer can you please put this to bed with a simple yes or no. Are you (by "you" I mean Engineers, not operators), supposed to press the stop button when you open a cover on the IMP machine? If it's "no" then really we are bickering about something that has gone way off topic. If it's "yes" and you don't do it, you're acting foolish! Simple.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 18 Nov 2007, 19:51

PJ it is obvious you are concerned about your work but if these things are not your responsibility then just do what YOU are supposed to do and let others take care of what they are supposed to do.

Post by **postal_jedi** » 18 Nov 2007, 20:06

dvbuk55 wrote:PJ it is obvious you are concerned about your work but if these things are not your responsibility then just do what YOU are supposed to do and let others take care of what they are supposed to do.

If your post is with regards to the H&S issues in this thread then no, I won't let others around me break H&S procedures. Procedures that are there to protect me from them, as much as themselves. I don't think turning a blind eye and ignoring unsafe behaviour from fellow colleague is at all acceptible. If your post is with regards to the long lost original topic in this thread. Then again, I would say no to just letting others do very little in the way of work, while I do my job properly and conscientiously. After all, when higher management decide to get rid of unecessary, pie-eating, crossword puzzled staff on IMP machines, it won't be those very pie-eating, crossword puzzled staff who go. It'll be some poor sod who has very little in the way of seniority and has nothing to do with the IMP machines.

Post by **postal_jedi** » 18 Nov 2007, 20:14

I would refuse point blank to work with anyone NON TPM trained full stop... ITS ALL OF OUR RESPONCERBILTYS H&S... Not just screws or TPM trained posties... EVERYONES....

Exactly, L Tommo, it's all our reponsibility!

H&S in RM has been a joke for years.

This is no excuse for ignoring H&S procedures.

lovejoy · Post by **lovejoy** » 18 Nov 2007, 20:20

postal_jedi wrote:Ahhh! Tman so this is what this is about. I'm assuming you're an Engineer, who obviously doesn't use the stop buttons. I Think you'll find that you're legal competence arguement would only make the case against someone breaking H&S procedures worse. Safety features put into anyones job are there not only to protect the employee but to protect others around the foolish employee who thinks they know better. If you are an Engineer can you please put this to bed with a simple yes or no. Are you (by "you" I mean Engineers, not operators), supposed to press the stop button when you open a cover on the IMP machine? If it's "no" then really we are bickering about something that has gone way off topic. If it's "yes" and you don't do it, you're acting foolish! Simple.

You are far too interested in the job!

Can you explain to me where this thread / debate fits into the greater scheme of things at the moment?

In short i think 99.9% of members would say who gives a f***

Biggins · Post by **Biggins** » 18 Nov 2007, 20:44

Im an imp operator and to a degree i would agree to a degree it can seem like there is a very relaxed attitude on the imps. We are though told to do the hazard box checks and i can confirm we are only supposed to do a minimum cull on the feed A. This is for both h&s and because the machine needs a varied mix of mail to work properly. In my time on the imps i hav always been approached about talking, drinking etc... all the things you mention and in my office i feel pressure to stick to "standards" is more so on the imps. I dont think the imps are any better or worse than any other section. I hav seen someone eating trifle on the packets.
I am almost sure engineers are supposed to press the blue buttons as i can remember one time when an engineer, doing a mailsearch on the culler, climbed into the back of the drum to get a stuck letter. He then got rotated in the drum when a manager walked over and started it up easily as he hadn't pressed the stop. He would hav been in deep shnit but his colleagues covered for him. The worst thing about this thread tho is that on thursday i was attacked by an operator with a cone.