Rural Sign-On - Less shifts for the shiftless

[cdpete2004]

OK. Here's one we should all be able to agree on. I'd rather do without this new 'revenue stream' (probably valued at less than £1 per week - seriously - to an average PO, than to see the government adopt and implement nationwide this ridiculous sceme. (Only the first paragraph is fact-based, by the way. A week or so ago, I'd have assumed the whole lot was made up).

I'm pretty sure I read in one of the latest Po communiques that some areas are trialling a rural 'signing on scheme' to enable the shiftless sorry, jobless, in remote rural areas to sign on at their local PO instead of making the arduous, painful, time-consuming, life-sapping, once a fortnight (or is it once a month now) trip to a jobcentre that may be as far as - who knows ? -maybe TEN or FIFTEEN miles away !!!!!! (mileage is just a guess there). Yep, the sort of journey 90% or more of us make 5 or 6 (even 7) times a week. I assume outreach vans will have to go from house to house, after midday, to accomodate the special needs of this group of individuals.

If all goes well, in twelve months time, heroine, cannabis, crack, smack and tenants super will also be available, on a 24/7 basis, at every PO local, and on a 2-day pre-order basis from PO Outreach.

Debenhams, M & S and Tesco have also already made tentative approaches to Royal Mail for discounted/free mass mailing of items to similar individuals who can't make it to midnight riots in order that they don't feel left out of future mass lootings due to lack of late night bus and train services from isolated villages to their nearest out of town mega midnight shopping centre.

[Lynn Simpson]

I really am horrified at some of the posts that are put on this site. It seems to me that there is a continual generalisation of the 'unemployed' and clearly people are reading too much 'Murdoch' propaganda. There are many people, both young and old searching for work but through no fault of their own, have been forced on the dole queue. They did not create the Economic climate that we are in, this is the result of having a corrupt and self serving system that allows greedy bankers to bankrupt the economy.

People on 'unemployment benefit' have very little money to live off. Transport costs just to 'sign on' is a further drain on their already tight resources. It cannot be right that a large chunk of their income is lost to this sort of bureaucracy. It makes perfect sense for them to 'sign on' at their local PO thus giving them the ability to use their limited income sensibly and it should not be forgotten that the extra work in PO's is a Government service which PO's are paid for. We should be embracing new work not shunning it as if we are too good for it.

[FinancialSpecialist]

I really am horrified at some of the posts that are put on this site. It seems to me that there is a continual generalisation of the 'unemployed' and clearly people are reading too much 'Murdoch' propaganda. There are many people, both young and old searching for work but through no fault of their own, have been forced on the dole queue. They did not create the Economic climate that we are in, this is the result of having a corrupt and self serving system that allows greedy bankers to bankrupt the economy.

People on 'unemployment benefit' have very little money to live off. Transport costs just to 'sign on' is a further drain on their already tight resources. It cannot be right that a large chunk of their income is lost to this sort of bureaucracy. It makes perfect sense for them to 'sign on' at their local PO thus giving them the ability to use their limited income sensibly and it should not be forgotten that the extra work in PO's is a Government service which PO's are paid for. We should be embracing new work not shunning it as if we are too good for it.

Here here, 100% agree.

[fishtank]

People on 'unemployment benefit' have very little money to live off. Transport costs just to 'sign on' is a further drain on their already tight resources. It cannot be right that a large chunk of their income is lost to this sort of bureaucracy.

I'm sorry i don't really buy the argument that someone would be travelling into a larger town just to sign on.
You have an obligation to actively seek employment,i think that would necessitate at least one trip per week to actually physically get out and look for work.
I don't think that is asking too much.

[Lynn Simpson]

You seem to make the assumption that the unemployed are not attending interviews or looking for work and are generally either sat in the Wetherspoons or in front of the television. I know young kids that are frantically searching for employment with very little success.

It suits this government to promote people on the welfare system as scroungers so that those in employment can look at others worse off and feel self righteous. Stops us having to look at 'real class differences and inequalities'! We need to stop believing this rubbish and start looking after our own.

[fishtank]

I don't make any assumptions Trish...that's an assumption on your part.
I don't need any lessons on right-wing propaganda either.
I do know that asking someone to travel 10-15 miles once a week or once a fortnight when they could incorporate this into their programme of "actively seeking employment" is not pandering to The Fabian Society.
It's completely sensible to keep motivated when looking for work and anything that promotes contact with other people and experiences is to be welcomed not shunned because it's easier to sign on at your village P.O.

[Lynn Simpson]

How does that work when they have limited resources and a job interview 20 miles in the other direction?

[fishtank]

How does that work when they have limited resources and a job interview 20 miles in the other direction?

Sorry Trish but if the only argument for signing on at a village P.O. rather than a proper Jobcentre is that they might have a Job Interview 20 miles in the opposite direction on the same day then we're dwelling on specific possibilities rather than the bigger issue....
If you take your argument to it's logical conclusion why bother signing on at all?

[cdpete2004]

Life is oh so hard, isn't it ? Society is full of victims. It's not their fault. It's the economy. It's the government. It's the Chinese. The Japanese. It's nasty capitalists. It's Thatcher's fault. It's Reganomics. It's the housing market.

No, it's not. It's generation after generation in many of these families bringing up their offspring to sponge off society. Show their kids the fiddles that will earn them the most 'pay'. Whether it's popping out another kid, or making the most of an aching back (usually from lying on it for too long) to get on disability, their only aim in life is to get as much out of the state as they can, while giving nothing in return.

For five years I've seen the same grandparents, children and grandchildren slope in, and slope out again with their 'pay' for the week. Some are hard shirking, lining up first thing on a Monday morning. The lazier, usually younger ones, rush in at 5.25 and have so much on their plate that they are a blur of activity, shifting itchilly from foot to foot - probably in a rush to meet their dealer before he moves on.

Then I see those new faces I haven't seen before, or old faces In haven't seen for a year or two. They're almost embarrased to be producing their giro, or purple card again. And you know what ? These people aren't around for long. They disappear again. They FIND more work, maybe part-time, maybe temporary, but they make the effort. These people I have respect for.

The rest of them ? Set up a soup kitchen for them Trish, and they'll bitch and whine and moan about the limited menu. They'll steal the cutlery and smash the place up when you're closed. And they'll always have someone else to blame. Cos it's the economy...the government...blah blah blah.

[The BFO]

Perhaps some of them will become Sub Postmasters, and complain about the unfairness of that...

[Lynn Simpson]

Clearly you have it all sorted with everyone labelled and stereo-typed into nice little boxes. As you have such an elitist view of the world, maybe you could advice the PO on what work you are prepared to do or even find acceptable to do over the counter .

Quite frankly I embrace the idea of the general public seeing the post office as a frontline for Government Services, new work means job security and that means not having your name on a Green Giro

[fishtank]

Quite frankly I embrace the idea of the general public seeing the post office as a frontline for Government Services, new work means job security and that means not having your name on a Green Giro

Unless you work in a Jobcentre in which case you probably would rather see a Post Office as the frontline for Post Office Services.
Removing the need for Claimants to sign on at a Jobcentre will inevitably lead to removing the need to sign on altogether then not only will the work disappear from the JC it will obviously also disappear from the P.O.
It's not only stealing work from another Government department...it's also undermining that work in the long term.

[shipmaster122]

Life is oh so hard, isn't it ? Society is full of victims. It's not their fault. It's the economy. It's the government. It's the Chinese. The Japanese. It's nasty capitalists. It's Thatcher's fault. It's Reganomics. It's the housing market.

No, it's not. It's generation after generation in many of these families bringing up their offspring to sponge off society. Show their kids the fiddles that will earn them the most 'pay'. Whether it's popping out another kid, or making the most of an aching back (usually from lying on it for too long) to get on disability, their only aim in life is to get as much out of the state as they can, while giving nothing in return.

I have to say, I totally agree with you on this post, society has become such as mess and because of the government offering such an easy route, many have in my eyes not even tried to find a job and just signed-on. I think people claiming benefits that are capable of working, but just can't be bothered should be made to do mundane community work which would then encourage the bulk of them to seek employment.. Anyone agree with me on this?

[cdpete2004]

Trish - ' Quite frankly I embrace the idea of the general public seeing the post office as a frontline for Government Services, new work means job security and that means not having your name on a Green Giro ' - just how exactly do you get to this assumption, that new (government) work means job security ????? Do you know how little PO pays per 'government service' transaction ? Do you know the going rate for car tax transactions ? How much time this transaction can take, since most POs get to deal with the idiots who don't know how to tax their car online ? Or the ones whose documents don't get accepted online, and who have to have it explained to them that they need document (x) or an up-to-date insurance policy ?

Maybe you should sit down some time and divide the payment received by a SPMR, by the time taken to carry out this transaction. I think you may find that, in IDEAL circumstances, with every customer having every relevant documant and policy in order and to hand, the turnover would equate to about £8.00 per hour. That's BEFORE deducting staff costs, business rates, electric, gas, water, business insurance, SPMR tax and NIC, property depreciation, interest payment on business loans.

Of course, if you're just sat at a counter, getting paid, whether you're serving a customer or twiddling your fingers and scratching your arse, it doesn't matter, does it ?

Yes. Trish. More loss making business. That's what we need.

[cdpete2004]

I agree with you on that one shipmaster. As I said, I have respect for those who use the benefits system as it was intended to be used. We should NEVER do away with the system, we should though ensure that it IS used as it was intended.

'Mundane community work' though, while making perfect sense to me, would in people like Trish's eyes, equate to an abuse of their human rights or dignity, squashing the noses of those poor misfortunates ever further into the dirt.

I've been of employment age for 30 years, I've worked in the UK for 21 of those years, lived overseas (and worked) for 4 of those years, and claimed unemployment benefit for 4 of those years, periods of unemployment varying from 14 weeks to 2 years. My father was a miner, my mother a housewife.

I think I've seen and lived enough of life to allow myself the luxury of any preconceptions, bigoted, racist or sexist views, as I choose to - Democracy is a wonderful thing.