What Planet are We On???

[Running Man]

I've been on the counter all day today and several things struck me about the way we behave in crown offices.

1. How much breath are we wasting thanking our customers for waiting? Does this actually mean anything to most customers and how sincere does it sound by lunchtime when we've been at it all morning? The most annoying thing about this wonderful initiative is that our leaders think that it actually helps! This does absolutely nothing to shift a queue or help it to move quicker- it simply acknowledges that YES we do have a queue and YES we know you've had to wait.

2. Keeping with the subject of wasted breath how much time and effort are we wasting with nonsense like coaching, role play, power hours, focus days, etc. trying to sell the same tired products to the same tiresome customers? How many times do we have to ask our card account customers about life insurance before we wake up and realise that the majority ARE JUST NOT INTERESTED-END OF!!!

3. Credit cards. I don't know if I'm missing something here but isn't the latest approach of "let's really push these credit cards for the next few days because we won't be able to after next week" EXACTLY the reason why companies like ours are being forced to stop selling them in branch? How many poor souls are we going to force this product on before a tiny fraction of common sense prevails come November?

4. Barnardos. If ever in the 400 year history of The Post Office there was an example of "fiddling while Rome burns" then the raising of money for Barnardo's is it. We are a business in crisis with unhappy customers, disillusioned staff and totally inept senior management so what do we do about it? We set out on a ridiculous crusade to shake buckets in the office to coax our customers (and staff) into parting with a few pence here and there for reasons best known to the aforementioned inept senior management.

Honestly...you couldn't make it up.

[Marin]

1. How much breath are we wasting thanking our customers for waiting? Does this actually mean anything to most customers and how sincere does it sound by lunchtime when we've been at it all morning? The most annoying thing about this wonderful initiative is that our leaders think that it actually helps! This does absolutely nothing to shift a queue or help it to move quicker- it simply acknowledges that YES we do have a queue and YES we know you've had to wait.

Is this for real? Jesus! It is no wonder we can't achieve anything!! If you go into the vast majority of successful retail stores, you only have to wait 30 seconds and someone will say 'sorry to keep you waiting'. Why do they do that? To ensure that the customer is acknowledged, that their wait is acknowledged and that they are a value to the business. It is called CUSTOMER SERVICE..
Now i am aware that this is a new concept to some of the longer serving 'crash & bashers', but it is a fact that successful businesses have satisfied customers. To be honest, it does help. No it won't ease a queue, but it might - MIGHT - stop a customer giving you grief.

2. Keeping with the subject of wasted breath how much time and effort are we wasting with nonsense like coaching, role play, power hours, focus days, etc. trying to sell the same tired products to the same tiresome customers? How many times do we have to ask our card account customers about life insurance before we wake up and realise that the majority ARE JUST NOT INTERESTED-END OF!!!

If I was allowed to say it without the CWU jumping down my throat, i'd say you are in the wrong job my friend! Oops - said it!
If all counter teams were talking to every customer as they are supposed to, role play would be moot. As would coaching to a degree.
The sad reality is that there are some that don't want to talk to our customers. And there are 100 reasons why - product, training, the inefficiency of the manager, the product, the time of day blah blah blah.
But - at the end of the day, we ALL have a job to do. A job who's description is firmly laid down by the CWU and POL. We may not like it all, but it IS our job. Customers may not be interested that day - or the next - or next week / month, but one day, they will because their lives have changed. And if we don't do it, someone else will. And then OUR customer may end up with an inferior product. Oh - but then their satisfaction is CUSTOMER SERVICE....

Now I know I am new to this forum, and if i have broken any rules in my outburst, I apologise. I am not here to make enemies either.
I have also read through a lot of your other posts, Running Man, and you seem to make a lot of very valid points in many threads. But as someone who is very customer focussed, I cannot let this go by.
I just think you are missing the whole point with what you said. Personally, I'd rather just get on with my job. If i don't like what is quite a big part of my jobs in the past, I've moved on. Perhaps you should consider doing the same if you can't get help in doing your job properly.

[donnac]

[Running Man]

I would be interested to know what marin thinks of points 3 and 4 of my original post.

Or has she simply picked the points that she happens to disagree with?

If marin was part of a majority in her thoughts then I'm sure that we would indeed have a successful business.

Sadly, as confirmed by Have Your Say 2010, it appears that marin is in a minority as most of our teams are totally fed up and exasperated by the way in which we are being 'led' (I use the term very loosely) by our senior managers.

It is the people at the top that have decreed that this approach WILL work and WILL secure our future. One brief look at our sales performance as a business, with the majority of products currently below target, proves conclusively that this approach is not working.

Am I looking for another job? After twenty odd years in a job that I have largely enjoyed with The Post Office I now find my role so intolerable that I am indeed searching elsewhere for something that may give me at least some job satisfaction.

Before somebody reminds me, I know I'm not going to get the same money that I currently earn!

[billyhayes]

...I know I'm not going to get the same money that I currently earn!

Don't be so sure my friend. I've been serving the same spongers for years who have never worked a day in their puff, and drive around in newer cars than myself and my colleagues.
Job? Work? Pah!

[PO1]

So Marin thinks that some of the longer serving staff don't know about customer service. That's the point sir, we do.

The important word is SERVICE. We are one and will never be a profit making business. If staffing levels hadn't been cut so drastically and overtime bans in place things wouldn't be as bad in a lot of offices as they are.

So he expects us to say "Thanks for waiting" another spin on "Sorry about your wait" and that will make the customer's experience better. I don't think so mate, not with the type of customers I've been dealing with for the last nearly thirty years.

As for not talking to the customers, we do. But it's usually "Put your card in", "Turn the card around", "The other way", "No not yet", "How much do you want?", "No not yet", "How much?", "No not yet", "How many stars can you see?" etc. etc. etc. (I don't think Marin would have had to do this with 90% of his customers every day for the last 7 years)

I take it he's another one who brushes the sales code of practice under the carpet. Which campsite do you think he's in, appropriate customers or any one with a pulse?

"Customers may not be interested that day.... but one day they will because their lives have changed" Listen mate the only thing that changes in my office is a different generation of claimants.

"May end up with an inferior product" Excuse me, DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!

I don't know about Running Man being in the wrong job but I think you should try for a double glazing salesman, it would be right up your street!

[billyhayes]

"Put your card in", "Turn the card around", "The other way", "No not yet", "How much do you want?", "No not yet", "How much?", "No not yet", "How many stars can you see?"

Comedy gold! This should be our default opening gambit. Oh, it is.
As someone in my office pointed out the other day,
"You can go anywhere on the New York subway for 25 cents. No matter how long or short the journey it's a single 'quater'.
It is not there to make a profit. It is there to provide a service, and therefore subsidised by the US government."
As are we. But the difference is we are expected to turn a profit out of the pockets of the unprofitable.

[The BFO]

I support the contribution from PO1, who has pretty accurately reflected reality.

[Marin]

It is the people at the top that have decreed that this approach WILL work and WILL secure our future. One brief look at our sales performance as a business, with the majority of products currently below target, proves conclusively that this approach is not working.

Am I looking for another job? After twenty odd years in a job that I have largely enjoyed with The Post Office I now find my role so intolerable that I am indeed searching elsewhere for something that may give me at least some job satisfaction.

I purposefully ignored points 3 & 4 based on the fact that i'd said enough to drop me in hot water to both boil and drown myself!
With some sadness, i do concur that there are many who are totally hacked off with the job. And i also understand why - I think...
There has been a lot of change which started before I joined POL, and I feel certain that much of this change has been mis-managed by senior management down to team Managers. To some extent, this might be why external managers were sought as some of us have different experience to bring to the table. We are but Managers though - we can't change the BS that comes from above!

Sales performance is poor currently, but I would guess there are many reasons for this. I am certain that one reason is that the targets were ludicrously high in some products making it unreachable in the first place - a difficult motivator for any manager. However, it does not prove "conclusively" that the approach will not work. What we have to do - as a business - is find a way to make it work. Not many financial institutes are making it work - all we can do, is our best!

Finally, good luck with that job search. Seriously, I mean that! But having come from a number of different sales and retail organisations, it's nothing short of tough everywhere with regard to getting job satisfaction. But I'd wish you all the best if you take that plunge. POL has its many faults, but compared to places i know, it ain't that bad!

Oh - before i go - Please take a good look at my post. Just under my name and some other bits, it says MALE. Shame you missed that before calling me a 'she'

[Marin]

So Marin thinks that some of the longer serving staff don't know about customer service. That's the point sir, we do.

The important word is SERVICE. We are one and will never be a profit making business. If staffing levels hadn't been cut so drastically and overtime bans in place things wouldn't be as bad in a lot of offices as they are.

So he expects us to say "Thanks for waiting" another spin on "Sorry about your wait" and that will make the customer's experience better. I don't think so mate, not with the type of customers I've been dealing with for the last nearly thirty years.

As for not talking to the customers, we do. But it's usually "Put your card in", "Turn the card around", "The other way", "No not yet", "How much do you want?", "No not yet", "How much?", "No not yet", "How many stars can you see?" etc. etc. etc. (I don't think Marin would have had to do this with 90% of his customers every day for the last 7 years)

I take it he's another one who brushes the sales code of practice under the carpet. Which campsite do you think he's in, appropriate customers or any one with a pulse?

"Customers may not be interested that day.... but one day they will because their lives have changed" Listen mate the only thing that changes in my office is a different generation of claimants.

"May end up with an inferior product" Excuse me, DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!

I don't know about Running Man being in the wrong job but I think you should try for a double glazing salesman, it would be right up your street!

Clearly you don't believe in the products we aim to sell, which is entirely your prerogative. However, to call me a liar when I talk of 'inferior products' just proves you don't know much of what else is out there. Like it or not, we have some very good products that can benefit our customers more than some others out there. Conversely, there are other companies that do clearly better products. My point, however, was that we should be giving our customers the choice!
And that statement should clear up your naive assumption that I sweep the SCP under the carpet, AND by using the word 'choice', I also hope you've managed to comprehend that I have the ethic of getting the right product for the right customer - not anyone with a pulse! There are any number of occasions whereby a customer is clearly not understanding a product and if that is the case, I'd never push just to get a sale and my team know that too..

Whether you accept it or not, peoples lives do change. Whether it be gaining or losing a job, losing or welcoming a family member, wanting to save or buy a house - whatever - lives change. Tell me your life hasn't changed - go on, please....

As for what would be up my street - it certainly isn't double glazing. But if you need some, I know a good man who can supply you with a window or two. And if you can't afford it - I can suggest a pretty good savings account

[billyhayes]

See, thing is with me, I do believe in the product, I just don't think that 90% of the people who come through our doors, BUY our product.

No matter how hard we try.

And we try... HARD.

Lets break it down.

Coffin dodgers who can't remember their pin ,
the JSA's and long-term-sickness-benefit scroungers who have been coming in week after week for much longer than I have been here ,
teen mums without a pot to piss in but a buggy full of babes and toddlers of varying colours ,
the ones that smell like a dustbin on a hot summers day, that have you shallow breathing like a like a deep-sea free-diver ,
the lost souls who can't speak a word of the queens, (actually I just sell to the child-interpreter on that one) ,
chuck in a few drunks and junkies... we've almost got a full house!

Each and every one of these buggers gets asked by my colleagues and I, about one or the other of our suite of products, week after week.

Guess what the response is? Week after week.

You say about lives changing. They do indeed. For Mr and Mrs Jones like you and me.

But the life of the average Post Office customer, does not. It is the same moribund, pitiful existence.

Sure, teen mum might squeeze out another wee bairn from another unknown father, (the result of yet another booze-fuelled knee-trembler behind the kebab van). And I will do my duty and coo at her baby when she comes in and talk to her about what we have to offer, to give her peace of mind. "Nah luv, taking the piss aintcha!?" Is the usual response. Hardly Jane Austen material.

I will, week after week, talk to Mabel about over 50's life cover, 'cos as you say, lives change. She will tell me how she doesn't see her sons enough and that her grandchildren have not met her yet. They are 5 years old already. Bless. One day Mabel will stop coming in. The milk bottles will start to mount up and the free-papers wedged in her letter-box will start to blow wistfully down the road.. The neighbours may complain of a funny smell... (I will probably never get the chance to get her to sign on the dotted line)

But we try nonetheless. But trying will not save us.

Now the flipside. (see it's not all doom and gloom!)

The 'normal' people, the run of the mill 'middle england' who DO buy from us;

The yearly visit to buy a car tax can easily be had on a car insurance, savings, life etc.

The '2.4 children' family unit who come in once a year to buy travel money. Bash them on a yearly travel insurance, life cover etc etc. Easy.

And many of them DO come back because they trust the brand, the staff, the FS who sold it etc.

This is not enough for us to survive.

Then you have the ones who scour t'internet and papers to find the best headline rate, buy our product, but will 'hop into bed' with someone else when the standard rate or terms become less favourable.

BUT the bulk of our footfall are, for want of a better word.. hopeless.

YES!! Before you say it, "sell the giros a phone topup!" "Sell a book of stamps to the CA's" I do! To almost every one of 'em! But just how much revenue is this actually generating? Per? I'll tell you, pennies not pounds.

So what can be done?

If we stopped paying giros and card accounts we may become a bit more attractive to the "median" but we would be left like a ghost town.

They will shut us ALL down 'cos we can't sell enough to who we have got.

They will shut us ALL down if we separate the wheat from the chaff.

It's lose lose.

-----------------------------------

In the words of Lt. Aldo Raine "I think this just might be my masterpiece."

[Running Man]

Sorry for the she/ he confusion marin! You will notice from my post that it was rather late and I really should have been tucked up in bed rather than messing about on t'internet.

It seems that between us we've really touched a nerve doesn't it?

I think that this forum is all about opinions and it's obvious from the various posts on "What Planet etc." that although there are some great differences in the opinions expressed so far, there is also some common ground between us all i.e. doing what we believe is best for our customers.

Thanks for your good luck wishes in the job search and I will leave you with one last comment on how I feel about POL. Having spent over twenty years with the company I have seen the very good times, the ok times and the really awful times (aka NOW!). Probably the main reason that I am so cheesed off is because....

"if I hadn't seen the sunshine, then I wouldn't mind the rain!"

Hope this isn't too cryptic for you all!!!

(I would still be interested in your thoughts on points 3 and 4 by the way.)

Reagrds, Runnung Man.

[PO1]

Firstly I'd just like to say to billyhayes that's one of the best posts I've read on here.

In answer to Marin who thinks he's brought something new to the table, it must be a bloody big table as I've seen a lot of people come and go in my time. Do you know what, I knew you were newish to POL, I could tell because your comments are typical of someone who hasn't dealt with our customers for a long time. There are a lot of people who've come in lately, usualy from the retail sector, mainly with the false assumption from the powers that be that we're getting into sales so lets get some sales people in. Why do you think they've had to externally recruit so many managers and FS? Could it be that the ones on the front line who've been dealing with our customers for decades know you haven't got a hope in high heaven of selling anything to them.

I work in a typical inner city benefits office as billy so rightly described. For your benefit, as it was probably before you started, what was deemed to be a sales and service office. These were basically the lowest of the low. The emphasis was supposed to be on service because they know there's not a lot you can do with our customers. Now because results everywhere are so poor we're finding the screws getting turned more and more with the hard sell attitude creeping in more and more.

Believe you me, the problem is I do know of what else is out there and that's our problem, we're never the first or best at anything we do. We get into homephone when the market is dwindling, we get into currency then give crap rates, we had a bank and sold it etc etc

We're trying to push the likes of savings accounts most with opening deposits of £500 and credit cards to benefits claimants for God's sake! If we fancy a laugh we line up some car insurance quotes (usually double what the customers paying now). Take it you've not heard of TalkTalk or Plusnet, how about insureandgo, moneysupermarket, comparethemarket or confused (and we've just spent a week of encouraging our customers to find them). So please, don't go saying I don't know much of what's out there.

I'm all for giving the customers a choice and clearly by the figures that are being achieved they're making that choice. Just a point I always like to make if every time you went into Tesco and the person serving you stopped and then tried to sell you car/home/life insurance or a credit card....how long would it be before you went to Asda?

As for pushing a customer to get a sale how's about this for an example? The FS (when you have one) GIVES the customer £1 to open a cash ISA (when you could open one for that amount) to achieve their sales targets. Witnessed many times I can assure you. I'd love to know how many £1 ISA accounts they still have open?

The rot really set in with Crystal Power (remember them?)

I presume the savings account you mention for me is with Nationwide.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your short reign with POL, I'm heading for the exit door after 29 years with a decent VR hopefully I think you'll get 26 weeks and then you'll be able to share your experience with other teams.

[counter man]

This is a really interesting forum.....one of the best for a long long time.
I,like a lot of people, have served nearly 30 years man and boy in a whole range of offices..so I feel its fair to say I have a good understanding of our customers and their differing needs.
We have to recognise things are bad out there....for everyone. We are fortunate to not be in a position where we turn up for work on a Friday, to be told the job has gone and dont come back Monday, which has happened to four of my friends who work in the private sector. I hope and prey we are never in that situation.

So yes, we are in trouble. Were not going to get the level of support we need from Government, our core customers are down week by week. OAP's are literally dying away. Road Taxes are now on line....I have seen a huge drop. I remember filling out 10 V11 summary sheets on a daily basis at month end.. 10 X 40 = 400 in a day!!!.

My questions is this.....What can we actually do to survive. Our hands are tied by compliance and regulations. We could all say.." we should be doing this...or we should be doing that....but in many cases it would be totally unrealistic to do!

So I ask you ...if it were your business. In its current state ( because whatever we feel about it we cant change the past) If you were in charge of POL what would you do to bring us back into profit and secure the jobs of the thousands of people who love the work we do in our offices?

[goggins69]

I have been on the counter in a crown office this week and it struck me just how quiet it has been considering it is the end of the month. I think we have driven our customers away trying to sell them products they do not want or need. Our manager is so delighted when we get a contact form from a customer. It doesn't matter that the customer says they are only available during the evening to receive a telephone call and our fss finishes at 5.30