POL want staff to be "PROUD"

[kathleen1]

" Despite my 25 years experience that holds no relevance to me on this argument I am afraid"

Thankyou very much FinancialSpecialist for your feedback, that just says it all to me.

Why don't you serve at the head of the queue on a Monday non-stop serving for 8hrs having the same life insurance conversation as the week before, if you the FS,ABM,BM, think its not a difficult job you show us how its done then we might have a bit of respect for you. All of you having a little chat when we open for about 15 minutes, then a nice coffee break, then a little play on your computer for the day, then another little play pretending to be busy because you are embarrassed because the queue is by the taxi rank. Then complain to the boss because you haven't had enough referrals whilst you have been walking the queue doing nothing. I and my colleagues earn every penny of our wages do you? Do you know FinancialSpecialist ITS A NO BRAINER!!!!!

[billyhayes]

Here's a tidbit I just found on the Post Office careers page.

When you apply for a counter or FS role this little gem of a question comes up;

"Please provide an example of when you have had to persuade a customer to buy a product or service which they may not have previously wanted or known about and what was the result?"

For the love of...!!!!

Persuade a customer to buy something they don't want....

THAT is the job as POL see it.
If anyone is not doing it this way, ie not 'persuading' the customer, but being all chummy etc etc like they are your best pal or something, then that is WRONG!!!
It's all there in the job description.
For any FS to try to come the innocent by saying they don't do it the way it states in POLs own recruitment question is either lying now, or lied at the interview stage and bullshitted their way in.

The prosecution rests your honor.

So tell us FinancialSpecialist.... Are you doing the job incorrectly, or are you a liar?

You have bleated many times that you don't coerce in any way, and that you only tell them about the product...
BUT my pedigree chum, that is not what your masters want.


PS - Just a heads up... Don't bother thinking too long and hard about a snappy comeback or overlong post that we will all just flick to the end of.
I am RMCs very own self-confessed super-troll and any response will only feed me more.
I just thought I'd put this on here for the amusement of others.. but mostly my own.

[billyhayes]

Please_Do_Not_Feed_The_Troll.jpg

[FinancialSpecialist]

That was entirely well reasoned and I agree with what you are saying. I am lucky that the queues in my Post Office are reasonably long, but they move very quick and it is rare that customers complain about having to queue there. Through working in both deprived and wealthy offices I have to disagree that customers are not interested in the products, people like the Post Office (due entirely to the counter staff who have served them and known them for years) and as long as people don't get desperate for sales and just try to chat to customers and keep our products in mind, the sales come easily. There will always be cases where people miss sell products, but honestly most people with kids have a need for life cover, most people going on holidays have a need for travel insurance, with cars for car insurance, etc. etc. and therefore it should be possibly to sell these products.

If we give them the information and our product is better there is no reason why they shouldn't take it, and if our product is worse then no one should try to pressure them to take it or feel bad if they don't. We are really lucky however with the products we sell - I'm sure all of you have seen cases where customers were being fleeced by banks on a variety of products, so why wouldn't we try to help them? If your friend said they were paying £60 a month for life cover or never shopped around for car insurance and their price kept going up, would you not try to help them save money?

The essence of the matter seems to be that a lot of Post Office staff have no faith in the products and think that we are just being asked to fleece people and lumber them with crap that they don't need. Please if you feel this way, walk into a few local banks or check their websites and see what is around. Ask your own bank who provides your mortgage for a life quote and see what they come up with, then do a quote on our website or with your FS. You may well be surprised...

[Blue8]

How can you chat to customers when you are told what to say and someone listening.
When our products are good they sell themselves our customers are not stupid.
The Bureau team are currently being told to tell customers out £1000 rate is the best on the high St well I got £300 of Euro's from M&S and it was a better rate than our offer and I didn't have to spend a fourtune.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

the best thing to do is try to find what the customer needs and introduce it to them, it is quite simple.

To me this is hard sell and just last month it influenced me in a purchase. I wanted a particular electrical product which was on sale in lets say Dixon's £15 cheaper than at the next door shop, a local electrical supplier. However, having shopped in both before I knew that the only question I would get in the independent was "Anything else" whereas at Dixon's it would be a litany including but not exclusive to, extended warranty, payment protection, insurance etc, all introduced by way of conversation. I went with the independent purely because of the service provided and thought that the £15 overspend was well worth the experience and time gained in not having to fight off the extras. I am not saying the PO is anywhere near that but from PO members views on here it seems if the day when it will be is getting closer and closer.

Also, and this is a personal opinion, I find that these "conversations" are demeaning to me on the receiving end. I am an adult that has the ability to express myself and to run a household budget, if I wanted a "top up" I would ask. If I want a financial product I have enough sense to shop around for the best price and then ask at the institution I decide to use. Having said that, I do agree that cross-selling appropriate products (which is what I used to do in another business), should be easy and straightforward, like Parcels/letters - Special Delivery, Car Tax - Insurance etc. It certainly does not need all the high pressure sales and structure that seems to be springing up in all walks of life.

[FinancialSpecialist]

I hadn't read a lot of the comments above before posting. After reading what some of you have written, it is clear that you work in dodgy offices and a lot of bad stuff goes on. None of what you have said applies in my branch, aside from the occasional referred customer who doesn't actually want to come over and is (shock horror) allowed to go without wasting their time.

I am not sure how the Financial Specialists in your office operate, but I certainly don't just do a bit of talking in the morning and go for a coffee break. I take my 2 breaks and a lunch like everyone else and am on the leave sheets. It is only fair and everyone works very happily with that, the only difference being that I take my lunch after the counter staff and when the branch is quiet I am frequently phoned on lunch and return to my desk until I have talked to customers - even if this is inconvenient I make sure not to let the other staff know because they are feeding me referrals to make my job easier and to help the branch. From talking to other FS in the area this is common in all offices and usually the FS does not leave the branch at lunch times to accomodate this. Could you please tell me how many of the counter staff in your area are willing to do this when it is busy?

Each week I spend a fair bit of time on the counter when queues are long or we are short staffed, of course during this time I am speaking to every single customer about products and try to do so by engaging in normal conversation with them. I am a chatty person so this is not an issue for me and I actually enjoy the banter and find this makes the day go much quicker and means that when customers come in it is not just robotic serving of a queue, but customer service which you all bang on about. At the end of the day I don't forget that I have a job to do, so if I hear they are going on holiday I introduce the travel services, if I see they are writing a large cheque I speak to them about savings, paying with a credit card I talk about the credit card, pushing a pram about life insurance, etc. This is completely logical and the customers expect it - in my 2 years experience in this job I have NEVER convinced a customer to buy something that they didn't want, or had an angry reaction from a customer for talking about our products. If a customer is not interested they can let you know, and the training team actively tell you to read a customer and if they are not interested to leave them alone. I have never been told to do otherwise by any manager, CAM or anyone else.

This is not rocket science or difficult, nor offensive to the customer, they realise we are doing a job and are happy when they make a saving or find out that their bank isn't as competitive as they thought. If they find out they have a better product than we can offer, they are certainly not annoyed at us for helping them realise this and no one should experience otherwise.

If someone just spouts conversations at the end of the customer's transaction and in fact find these "conversations" demeaning, of course they will experience something else.

I think that the big problem has arisen from the transfern from purely service to sales and the staff on this forum don't see that we have just expanded our range of services. The Post Office has always depended on targets of some sort and that will never change. Providing a customer with information about the services we provide is also a service and should be viewed as such - no one should ever push products on customers who don't want them, and if that is happening in your office, do something to stop it. Don't just use it as a reason to say the whole system is a load of crap and everything is worthless, that is just becoming part of the problem and will drag you down with it.

[billyhayes]

Hmmm, just a few points there:

...From talking to other FS in the area this is common in all offices and usually the FS does not leave the branch at lunch times to accomodate this. Could you please tell me how many of the counter staff in your area are willing to do this when it is busy?

Errm... Every single one of us in our office.
And in 7 other offices in our CAM area.
We have had 30 minute lunches enforced on us so of course we stay in branch during this little time we have.
It is barely enough time to rush out, queue up with everyone else who is buying their lunch, come back, force it down our necks to get back on the counter.
Whether it is busy or not.
I take it you only stay in when it's busy then?
It would be nice to have a choice I guess.

Each week I spend a fair bit of time on the counter when queues are long or we are short staffed, of course during this time I am speaking to every single customer about products and try to do so by engaging in normal conversation with them. I am a chatty person so this is not an issue for me and I actually enjoy the banter and find this makes the day go much quicker and means that when customers come in it is not just robotic serving of a queue, but customer service which you all bang on about. At the end of the day I don't forget that I have a job to do, so if I hear they are going on holiday I introduce the travel services, if I see they are writing a large cheque I speak to them about savings, paying with a credit card I talk about the credit card, pushing a pram about life insurance, etc.

Which leads me to...

This is completely logical and the customers expect it

So if/when you serve Miss Young Mum again next week, will you YET AGAIN, ask her if she has life insurance, you know, for the future of the kids.
'Cos this is what we have to do, day after day after week after week. The same people, the same questions. And the best bit... the same responses, NO!
But I'm being paid £11 an hour to play this bullshit game, so.. I play it.

I have NEVER convinced a customer to buy something that they didn't want...

Then you aren't doing the job properly I'm afraid. Check the online application.
As commendable as your actions may be, it isn't what POL want.

No one should ever push products on customers who don't want them, and if that is happening in your office, do something to stop it...

Au contraire Rodney. It is our customers who are doing something to stop it.
They are staying away in their droves.
So we are left with:
the hardcore pensioners who pretend they can't hear you when the sales patter starts,
the junkies and drunks that get verbal,
the mums with half a dozen kids of all different colours, screaming at them in the finest Estuary English "Don't farrking run around in 'ere you little bastards, show some respect!"

Over the past 5 years our previously very loyal customers have not been shy to tell us why they are leaving us;
"I'm moving my pension from POCA to X bank account because I am sick of being "sold to" when I get to the counter. An ATM wont do that."
"I get my tax disc direct from DVLA because I come in every 6 months and the staffing levels worsen upon every visit, the waiting times have gone up and up, and the selling is more desperate each visit."
"I order my currency online and get it delivered to my door, because when I ask for £300 of Euro's I will not be 'recommended' £350 of Euro's because that is what YOU want to sell me."

These are not one offs. This is up and down the country in 373 crown offices.
You either can't see it or you ignore it.

[FinancialSpecialist]

I just disagree because it isn't the experience in the offices where I am based. Of course I wouldn't keep mentioning the same product to the same customer every time they are in, unless of course they said they were going to think about it, in which case I would ask them if they had done so. How do I know that I haven't overstepped the mark or have annoyed customers? The majority of the customers I sell to come back and phone me regularly. I am not twisting anyone's arm behind their back and I get a lot of self generated sales from working on the counter myself. I do know what is expected from the counter staff and I know it is not easy, but it is a job.

None of the offices in my area have half hour lunches and in each office I have worked in, the counter staff stick religiously to their lunch times (well the starting time anyway) and do not deviate from them. Of course I take my lunch when it is not busy, that is usually well after 2:30 so please do not try to suggest that it is my privilege to do so.

You are deliberately simplifying what is in the job application - talking to somebody about something they did not previously want does not mean hard selling, you are intelligent enough to see that and intelligent enough to twist it. I may not want home insurance, but if my house burnt down I would kick myself. I would be upset if my family were saddled with my debts if I died, despite not having previously thought about or considered it.

What really shines through here is what you have all already stated, that your job has changed and so has the business, leaving you uncomfortable with what your job has become. This is something I do not envy and I too would find very hard. I entered the business after these changes and was aware of how the business operated, so I have an entirely different viewpoint and we will likely never agree on these core issues.

[subbie]

I have no beef with Financial Specialists, unless they get parachuted into Sub Offices, save to say that they are soooo passe!

Banks got rid of this style of selling ages ago, because it didn't work. The Great British Shopper simply does not like this kind of "in your face" selling. Just stand in any Shopping Mall where the RAC or the AA man has his little stall, and just watch the folk make a walking detour around them, Bank customers did not like this kind of approach, and staff left their jobs rather then submit to a practice that customers disliked.

The way forward is soft selling.

Good quality in store adverts, a leaflet handed out with the sales receipt by the PO clerk with NO sales spiel, will go much further than annoying customers in a queue, how about some bright young things (all dolled up) ( sorry to the feminists) handing out leaflets inside and outside the branch, in store TV, I like those screens that Lakeland Plastics have on their tills, when I go to summer shows, I see NS&i with a promo stand, why does POL not take this kind of approach?

You have to take a lateral approach to selling these days, but please dont hassle people in Branch or expect your core business sales staff, eg Counters Clerks to waste their reputation and time by force selling these products, it is counter (excuse the pun) productive.

Subbie

[FinancialSpecialist]

Also, in response to saying that customers are leaving all the time to go to the bank... again this isn't the situation in my branch where customer numbers haven't fallen hardly at all. We have an ATM in branch and only very few customers use it, most prefer to go to the counter and get human interaction, and many already have bank accounts but keep their POCA separate. I really hope I never get transferred to your office as it sounds like either the customers are horrible or the staff are pushy, it's one of the two. Regarding your point about "the mums with half a dozen kids of all different colours" - what relevance does their ethnicity play in your argument?

It seems that you make a number of judgments about the customers you are "serving" and it also sounds like the customer response of leaving your branch is a direct result to the way that they are being served and not the sales culture that they will encounter in any other place they set foot in.

[FinancialSpecialist]

I think our culture is soft selling, it just seems that in some branches they get desperate and push. Introducing a product is no different to giving a customer a leaflet with their receipt. If they respond to it they can talk about it, if not they can go, it will also waste a lot less paper.

Fs should not try to sell in the queue, it simply does not work, annoys the FS and annoys the people queueing. The FS should however try and speed up the queue by getting forms, directing people to the right window, helping customers find things, etc. If sales opportunities come out of this, then so be it, but the primary concern should be helping the customer and making the queue go quicker.

[billyhayes]

Me again!!

Regarding your point about "the mums with half a dozen kids of all different colours" - what relevance does their ethnicity play in your argument?

None. It amused me so I typed it. Simples!

...you are intelligent enough to see that and intelligent enough to twist it.

How dare you Sir! I am not intelligent. Just a lowly troll under the bridge.

But seriously, to overstep the mark is what happens day after day.

Lets say Mrs Smith is asked on Monday about Life because it's a life day. She says NO.
Come Thursday, another life day, Mrs Smith comes back in and gets asked the SAME thing because if the clerk doesn't the manager then carpets them for NOT asking.
it really is that simple my friend. Ad infinitum.

Also, I do the job very well thanks very much. Well, if a 4 on my PDR is 'very well'.
My 'argument' stems from the fact that I get paid £11 an hour so I play the game as POL want me to play it. But I'll still call foul regardless.

PS to subbie... excellent post. I mean that.

[FinancialSpecialist]

I don't know any counter clerk who asks every single customer for life on a life day, or of a manager who would spend all their time listening in to check, they don't have enough time for this.

Every time when detailing examples of how things happen, you detail the worst case scenario - day to day no branch is as you describe and it is impossible to make a quite acceptable point because "oh if that happened all hell would break loose, the customers would start pissing on the floor and Horizon would catch fire, all the counter staff would die". There is nothing but negativity on this forum, not one positive word being said by anyone (except when discussing VR), just doom and gloom. You make the Post Office sound like a concentration camp when in fact it is a job like any other.

You should be happy that the sales environment is here, because anything that can be done on the counter can be done by a computer faster, cheaper, more accurately and efficiently (mentioning all the products all the time and not complaining) but people will always prefer to buy from people. If you just like serving customers quickly, how are you more useful than a Post & Go machine?

[billyhayes]

My turn!! (this is fun this)

Our customers don't piss on the floor, they piss on our comfy sofas thank you very much.
One gentleman even had a bowel movement a few months back. A right mess it was too. Fact.

In my experience Horizon wouldn't catch fire. The printers may because they have the wrong printer drivers installed and some run a little hot. Fact.

You make the Post Office sound like a concentration camp when in fact it is a job like any other.

What is it that's written over the gate at Auschwitz... "Arbeit macht frei"... Work sets you free. Fact.

And on to your final point, I am more useful than a P&G machine because they don't ask their customers about life insurance. WHEREAS I DO!!!! FACT.

And who said I serve quickly??? Bloody lies!