POL want staff to be "PROUD"

[Mr Love Pants]

Whoops I meant that the Post Office has turned a profit. Wishful thinking on my part ;)

Thats more lke it - don't forget these figures probably include the 180m that the government has pumped in.

[FinancialSpecialist]

The frustrating thing is that whilst obviously the crown network is in quite bad shape financially, money continues to be hemorrhaged on silly things, and cut back where it is actually needed. To give a basic example - when a new credit card leaflet is launched they always send us boxes of new ones, usually far more than we actually need. In addition, if there is to be a change to the product, the system still allows us to order and receive hundreds of leaflets which may go out of date within a week. In fact, the waste of paper throughout the business is incredible, I am not a green freak but the Post Office is a public service and trades under an ethical image, there should be a bit more done about this. The ordering system for leaflets should not take weeks, instead taking days so that these issues do not occur.

Unlike a lot here, I don't count meetings as a waste of money, bringing together the different managers and specialists is an invaluable tool for team building, building morale and sharing best practice. That said, the majority of the ones I have been to in the past year have been badly structured, rambling, pointless and have overrun for no reason - that of course is a waste of money.

Then the places were budgets have been cut, e.g. tv advertising. I remember the last ads for OVer 50s and mortgages - did anyone see the schedules? They weren't represented in all UK regions, they were on obscure channels for the most part and seldom on. I personally did not meet a single customer who had seen either - is this not a case of "you have to speculate to accumulate"?

Furthermore, where's this children's savings account they have been talking about for so long? It is a product that we really need and customers really want, I have no idea why they can't get the finger out. Loads of customers feel a strong bond with the Post Office because their parents opened them a passbook account when they were young and it was the only place they ever saved. With the poor rate on the Investment Account, the lack of a Post Office children's savings account is removing this link with the next generation of customers and stopping their parents from coming in on a regular basis with them.

Rant over.

[kathleen1]

I totally disagree with you financialspecialist i think all the courses and meeting are a waste of money, you say to bring managers together to discuss ideas, you can do that in branch. All the BMs, ABMs, and FS no offence you keep missing one vital person out of all of this the "CUSTOMER", waiting upto 20-30 minutes in a queue is an absolute disgrace, plus my manager has never came back from a jolly and expressed any views to the staff about a course.


We got told by a senior manager that sales in the post-office only account for 15% of the income in branch, so that means all the counter clerks make up 85% in income serving customers day in day out.The income for savings doesn't even cover the FS wage, so if we got more bums on seats the queue would get served quicker and you would probably get more cutomers coming through the doors so our income would be even better.I 'm not saying get rid of the products but customers should be able to pick up a leaflet at the till and choose what product they want not what the PO wants on the board that day. None of us has had conversations on the new National Savings and Investment product but demand has been very high, as we all say in work if a product is good it will SELL itself.

Its like the bureau how many times have we said give a decent rate and the bureau will sell itself, not 3 different rates to confuse them, the problem is the ones at the top think they are so clever but they are NOT. Don't tell the customer the rate we get told, thats open , fair and honest, guess what i tell them the rate and if they say to me the rate is better in ThomasCook i just smile back with no objective handling whatsoever i have nothing to gain the end of the day the customer is getting more spends to go on holiday with.

[FinancialSpecialist]

Sorry Kathleen, your argument is flawed. If only 15% of the income is sales, then 85% of the income comes from things which are service related. This 85% business is falling and based on contracts which may not be renewed, hence for the business to survive, they need to explore new avenues. I appreciate what you are saying, and I also agree that counter staff aren't recognised as much as they should be by the business as a whole, but if they keep doing what they have been doing the business will crumble.

The reason that the Inflation Linked Savings are selling like hotcakes is because they offer much more than a bank can, there is no way the Post Office could fund those products themselves. Secondly, NS&I have had their knuckles rapped for miss-selling them by overstating the benefits. Another reason that they have sold so well, is that few know how they work, but many know that RPI is high at the moment. Most customers I have spoken to haven't been aware that they get RPI +0.25% in the first year, and that if the rate of inflation doesn't rise as much over the next 5 years they don't get as much, and that if they close it in the first year they get nothing. Our products are strong, we won't always be the best on the market for everything, otherwise we won't make any money - this is common sense.

It would not be feasible to do all meetings in the branches, and it is necessary for BMs, etc to meet up every so often - this is the same in any business, it is just that since the downturn staff resources are so limited that this has a knock on effect. Therefore, meetings should be well planned and useful, and arranged for mid month when offices are quiet. It is not possible to run a business without the occasional meeting, as long as the emphasis is on ensuring that they are useful then they should be an advantage.

As regards your manager not taking much from the meetings - some meetings are more useful than others and some people take more from them than others. The meetings I have been to lately have been diabolical but that hasn't always been the case.

[kathleen1]

I don't see that my argument is flawed, you say NSI had its knuckles rapped for mis-selling you have got to be joking with
what we have seen examples as follows:

The financial specialist oh yes opening ISA accounts for a £1.00 with her own money. (we couldn't believe it either management turned a blind eye).

A manager opening 10 growth bonds for a £1000.00 each cash for the same customer. (we told him you couldn't do that due to money laundering regulations) he wasn't interested he just wanted to look good to higher management and took no notice of the staff, couple of weeks later Bank of Ireland sent them all back, oh what a surprise then the customer had to come back after being in branch for over 2hours an elderly man aswell or should i call him vulnerable....

Another manager not taking identification for bureau transaction paid by card just to get the sale (horizon won't let you do it now )

So i don't think the post-office can complain about mis-selling, you don't seem to answer any points about some offices having waiting times of more than 30 minutes, people being harassed everyday about selling.The post office have lost contracts due to other agents being cheaper thats business there is nothing the staff can do about it, there are people out there who get a good wage to win contracts.


The post-office is a service to the public especially the socially excluded people that the banks won't touch, all the bullying in branches in my opion started when the post-office brought staff in from the outside, sales people (the counter staff wouldn't
touch it) because thats what happens when you want sales and are being pressurised by management and need numbers on the board. FinancialSpecialist we will never agree i am a counter clerk with 25 years counter and people experience under my belt and you are a sales person who sells financial products for the past 2 years for the postoffice so we both have to carry on for the moment but i can't see it being too long.

[billyhayes]

...opening ISA accounts for a £1.00 with her own money...

Seen that done many times.

...opening 10 growth bonds for a £1000.00 each cash for the same customer...

Oh, now that is naughty! (but not at all surprising)

...not taking identification for bureau transaction paid by card just to get the sale...

Snap! (once again), this used to be done by our BM when they thought no-one was watching.

...carry on for the moment but i can't see it being too long...

AGREED!!!

[kitkat]

We had a manager (brought in from sales background), who let a customer pay for a £5000 growth bond with cash but put it through as a cheque! He then left an inexperienced clerk to sort out the mess when her cash and cheques didn't balance. They got rid of him, thank god

[kathleen1]

We had a manager (brought in from sales background), who let a customer pay for a £5000 growth bond with cash but put it through as a cheque! He then left an inexperienced clerk to sort out the mess when her cash and cheques didn't balance. They got rid of him, thank god

Desperate sales people do desperate things, not like the experienced counter clerks.

[Blue8]

Hear Hear kathleen our manager has got no end of savings accounts and Life cover for her nad her family Desperate!!!

[Super]

A couple of years ago, having unsuccessfully tried to get a customer to sign up for a PO Credit Card, I watched one of our Sales "Expert" Managers pretty much block the exit and take the same customer aside and, in my opinion, bully her into signing up for the same product. I can only say I was, and still am, disgusted and embarrassed by his actions. I told him so and all he did was laugh and say "thats how we get the sales". "Not in my world" said I in reply. The problem with this type of action is it was made by someone who has absolutely no loyalty to POL or real concern abouts its future-they just appear as if by magic, cause chaos then leave almost as quickly...!

[billyhayes]

A couple of years ago, having unsuccessfully tried to get a customer to sign up for a PO Credit Card, I watched one of our Sales "Expert" Managers pretty much block the exit and take the same customer aside and, in my opinion, bully her into signing up for the same product. I can only say I was, and still am, disgusted and embarrassed by his actions. I told him so and all he did was laugh and say "thats how we get the sales". "Not in my world" said I in reply. The problem with this type of action is it was made by someone who has absolutely no loyalty to POL or real concern abouts its future-they just appear as if by magic, cause chaos then leave almost as quickly...!

Sounds like that twat that came from Sainsbury's and Slimming World. Was it him?

[Super]

Dont know where the guy concerned came from but I remember him being full of wind and you know what!

[the old girl]

So help me get this straight then. A couple of weeks ago we were all summoned to WTL even if we were off duty, to fill in a chart about the way forward. We were told we were "returning" to giving good customer service, and no pressure selling etc. (Oh what you mean actually sticking to the sales codes then).
Why then, within a few days, are we being bombarded with emails from up high about power hours galore, which if we don't achieve sales we must repeat again later that day and every day.
Marvellous!

[FinancialSpecialist]

Despite your 25 years experience, that holds no relevance with me on this argument I am afraid. I have a lot more than 2 years experience in working in financial services and have always worked in a customer service background, I still see my role as primarily customer service based. I am also extremely disappointed to hear of the litany of miss selling that has happened in your office, this has not been an issue in the 3 that I have worked in. We have obviously come from different backgrounds and are experiencing different things now.

If your office is not following the regulations, that does not mean that every office does the same thing. People may break the rules, but as you say it comes back to bite you in the bum, the best thing to do is try to find what the customer needs and introduce it to them, it is quite simple. The experience that I have personally found in the offices that I have worked in, is that the people who shout loudest and complain most about the way that the Post Office is going, are the same who don't fulfill the minimum standards of asking for special delivery, being polite to the customer, etc. This job is not difficult if everyone just chats to customers, it doesn't have to be "conversation" lead and we do sell good products so there is no reason to be embarrassed about it.

Have a look around at the banks, our rates are compare very favourably and it is unusual that we get beaten on life and home insurance. It is never going to be the case that the Post Office stops selling these products, so I don't understand why people who can't accept this don't find work somewhere where it is not an issue. It is a no brainer!

[The BFO]

It is never going to be the case that the Post Office stops selling these products, so I don't understand why people who can't accept this don't find work somewhere where it is not an issue. It is a no brainer!

I suspect the difference lies in our backgrounds. Many of we longer serving staff joined the Post Office when ‘selling’ in the current sense simply did not exist. We were recruited almost entirely on our numeracy skills. I consider myself to be an ‘organiser’ and whilst I fully accept the job has changed, and I must change with it, I just do not gain any pleasure from selling. It is therefore hard work. Why don’t I leave and find a job elsewhere? I am 52 years old, and have only ever worked, since the age of 16, for the Post Office. Frankly, my chances of getting a job at my current rate of pay are next to non existent. To fair to my employer, I think this is recognised, and due allowance is made. However, there are things that go on that raise the hackles of even the most tolerant of people. It is a fact that in many offices, queues are unacceptably long, with the overall majority of customers just not interested in buying what we want them to.