Would you like it there tomorrow?

[FinancialSpecialist]

Someone doesn't understand the question, probably because we serve the public all day long and they play on a computer, whats all this big fuss about? Its only mis-selling to our customers and ripping them off for at least £5.45 for a christmas card that would normally be 46p first class stamp and arrive tomorrow anyway.

WHATS ALL THE FUSS? I have no idea do you?

Are you honestly telling me that you have been asked to sell every Christmas card as Special Delivery? Again you are being deliberately obtuse, I suppose it is easier than putting any effort into what you are saying.

The fact is that most customers assume that 1st class affords them much more compensation than £46, that it will probably get there next day and that their cash/valuables/important documents will be safe sent through the post. As a service to the customer you should make sure that they do not do this under false pretenses and weed out the customers who do need their documents guaranteeing, their valuables protecting or a guaranteed next day service. If they don't need any of these it would be ridiculous to offer Special Delivery and yes it would constitute mis-selling imo if you were to push it.

I think you are missing the point though, by asking every customer the same questions the Post Office will provide a consistency of service which will quickly distinguish which customers need the service and which do not. Customers will never have the level of knowledge that you do about the baffling variety of postal options and that is why you are supposed to be asking them which service they need. It hardly takes a genius to figure it out.

[andy2007]

As a Post Office customer, I'd have to disagree with you FinancialSpecialist. I find the set script, and surprisingly pushy sales tactics counterproductive. It has meant that I've used the smaller Post Office down the road, but at the expense of the main Post Office, in town. I rarely go there anymore, as I got sick of the constant sales pitch.

Now the difference with the smaller PO, is that they listen to what you ask for, and give sound advice. Rather than just pushing the more expensive products. As it happens, I use SD for anything valuable anyway, as I'm well aware of our services, from working in RM.

As people are trying to explain in here. Instead of having a set script, they should be allowed to do what the smaller POs do: Use their common sense, knowledge of the customer (if it's a regular), and tailor the advice accordingly. That way, people won't feel pressurised, and are more likley to return to that branch. Or is that the master plan, behind closing so many Post Offices, that's been going on for several years now?
Make it impractical to go to another PO, so people will be forced to endure the "hard sell".

[simjan]

fs you have not got the question right, please reread your script

[kathleen1]

fs you have not got the question right, please reread your script

Thankyou! some common sense, yes thats what we have been told to say and not give the customer any options just say £5.45 even if its just a christmas card that isn't urgent or got no value to it. I'm glad to see that counter clerks understood me and read the post there is no way i'm taking that amount of money off old or vulnerable people just posting cards with no money in them, maybe all the sales people will be very proud to do so to reach targets i hope they sleep at night because i couldn't. I still take pride in my job and give the customer the product that matches their needs and S.D for a christmas card does not.

[claire1.9]

dear fs since you seem to kmow our job so well how about this one then we all know that 2nd class post is not guarteed next day neither is it one to two days like first class post. it is a cheap way of sending your mail and your not in a rush. Yet because we have to treat customers fairly we are still expected to have a full special delivery conversation with them. Do the post office think that the customer has no commom sense at all or is it us counter clerks who have done this job for years got just dumb and stupid and i know i am not. But fss i applauded you for your committment to your job however for us counter clerks that have been in this business since the sales culture began know more than you will ever comprehend that all the post office is do drive their customers aways and the amount of money they have wasted on one sales model after another. Many problems would be solved if they just stopped and listened to their front lined staff once in a while.

[PO1]

dear fs since you seem to kmow our job so well how about this one then we all know that 2nd class post is not guarteed next day neither is it one to two days like first class post. it is a cheap way of sending your mail and your not in a rush. Yet because we have to treat customers fairly we are still expected to have a full special delivery conversation with them. Do the post office think that the customer has no commom sense at all or is it us counter clerks who have done this job for years got just dumb and stupid and i know i am not. But fss i applauded you for your committment to your job however for us counter clerks that have been in this business since the sales culture began know more than you will ever comprehend that all the post office is do drive their customers aways and the amount of money they have wasted on one sales model after another. Many problems would be solved if they just stopped and listened to their front lined staff once in a while.

[kathleen1]

dear fs since you seem to kmow our job so well how about this one then we all know that 2nd class post is not guarteed next day neither is it one to two days like first class post. it is a cheap way of sending your mail and your not in a rush. Yet because we have to treat customers fairly we are still expected to have a full special delivery conversation with them. Do the post office think that the customer has no commom sense at all or is it us counter clerks who have done this job for years got just dumb and stupid and i know i am not. But fss i applauded you for your committment to your job however for us counter clerks that have been in this business since the sales culture began know more than you will ever comprehend that all the post office is do drive their customers aways and the amount of money they have wasted on one sales model after another. Many problems would be solved if they just stopped and listened to their front lined staff once in a while.

Thankyou claire1.9, I do think that POL thinks that all counter clerks are stupid, i have been doing S.D for over 25 years and guess what i do understand what it is used for not for sending christmas cards with no value to them.

[FinancialSpecialist]

Where have you got this idea of getting everyone to send every christmas card as SD? If that is happening in your branch go to the union... It should be a matter of finding out who needs the service and not trying to get everyone to send it SD.

I am glad this thread has had some good debate - Claire do you not think a lot of the falling Post Office customer numbers is to do with other things like email, breaking up of town centres, rise of the internet for purchasing, etc? I don't think the sales culture is responsible for driving all the customers away although I am sure it has pissed some off. If the current level of income and demand for 1st and 2nd class is insufficient and the government doesn't want to bankroll the Post Office then what would you suggest as a solution?

It is true that selling Special Delivery to people who don't need it is entirely wrong, surely though you must see it as imperative that where it is needed that it is offered and explained to the customer, to get the most income possible when all revenue streams are falling. It is the same reason why the Post Office must maximise all opportunities for other products and continue to look for other (hopefully more profitable) ventures than it has done in the past.

[Running Man]

I find myself agreeing with some of the points made by Financialspecialist but totally disagreeing with other points, which I suppose is what a healthy debate is all about.

One point I will make however is that Mr. FinancialSpecialist is sounding more and more like a SEM, SCM or whatever they are called this week, with every post; the very people blamed by a lot of front line staff for the sapping of morale in many offices!

I'm sorry but pushing the SAME products at the SAME customers in the SAME manner every week is every bit as pointless as it is counterproductive.

Would any rocket scientists out there care to disagree?

[billyhayes]

..... SAME customers in the SAME manner every week is every bit as pointless as it is counterproductive.

Would any rocket scientists out there care to disagree?

I find it all a bit of a wheeze now, to be honest.
I ask the same grannies week in week out about this that n t'other, as they are invariably the ones at the front of the queue. Time we get round to serving someone who fits the bill, ie, a car tax, someone with kids (who isn't trying to draw the last 37p out of their card account, (true story), etc etc they shoot us down quicker than you can say "bonds miss-sold" as they listen to us lot sitting their trying to flog dead horses to half dead wrinklies.
And they pay us £13 an hour for the pleasure. Lovin' it.

[claire1.9]

I totally agree with you fss that we have to we to make an income but we have to ask the same people every week the same thing and these people have been coming in for years. Your regular ebay customers who you see nearly ever day you are still expected to have the sd conversation. I am not saying we should not sell but let us use our commom sense because we do have alot of it at the end of the day because this is the job we do day in day out. We could all sit in a ofice and make up conversations, it just does not mean to say the work in the real world.

[The BFO]

I do believe there are two words that encompass this entire debate:-

Crap Management.

[simjan]

agree claire, how the same question but throw comman sense in,example is would you like it tommow, diff answers they say yes so you tell them the price, they yell out the price, or if not english or vunerable would pay. surely if you have the sense to see they eighter do not understand there is more options without the quarentee or increased cover for value or cash etc. you should be able to ask the simple question, what is in it and then give them the full options, then they can make an informed choice, but if you do that you get pulled in. feel so pressurised into pushing an unsuitable produst on to someone. think anyone posting wants it there tomorrow or wants priority when posting abroad, but we are told to pause after giving the sd or signed for abroad if they say yes and go for it. even regulars who know exactly what they want and ask for 2nd class or the cheapest, need to tell them the options of coarse, but in a way that shows that you are giving attention to that customer and listaning to them,

[PO1]

If you walked in to any other business and asked for something, you would expect them to offer you all the options and not just assume that you wanted the cheapest one. Asking if they would like it there tomorrow and if it is worth any more than £46 is such an easy thing to do and ensures they are sending it the right way.... I seriously don't see what the fuss is about.

You're missing the point FinancialSpecialist. If you read my original post, that is the problem, we're not being told to offer all the options that are available. My whole point is that the mis-leading question of "would you like it there tomorrow?" followed by a pause is, by the agreed admission of my BM, to give you more chance of getting a yes than if you say "would you like it there tomorrow guaranteed".

The fact that someone would like it there tomorrow does not mean that they want special delivery. If you check the Horizon on line help file you will see that Royal Mail's aim is to deliver 1st class the next working day. So, should I not just offer them 1st class as a response to the initial question? If it's a guranteed service that I'm going to offer them I should be able to tell them it's a guaranteed service at the start and not try and hide the fact so as I have more chance of getting a yes.

I refer you once again to the sales code of practice.
"Always be open and honest with all our customers"
"Not knowingly sell goods and services to customers which are inappropriate to their needs or means"
"We will not tolerate any form of hard selling, targeting inappropriate customers, mis-selling or placing undue pressure upon employees in DMB's"

In my 30 years with POL I have asked all the questions of someone to see if they need SD for what it is they are sending and yes, WE ARE having to ask EVERYONE "would you like it there tomorrow?" I know it's a Christmas card, they know it's a Christmas card... even you would know it's a Christmas card! I would have asked if there was any value or cash vouchers or jewellery and do they want it guaranteed for tomorrow as part of my normal routine. But now, I'm threatened with MUP if I don't do it EXACTLY as I've stated "Would you like it there tomorrow?" pause.

It's a shameful time to be working for POL. They've lost sight of what's important to the customers who still walk through our doors, who for different reasons are dwindling month on month. I know the answer is go and seek employment elsewhere but I, like most people I know, are waiting for the inevitable VR that WILL arrive in the near future. So until then it's a question of will I be able to avoid being MUPed before it comes. The race is on...

[TrueBlueTerrier]

If the current level of income and demand for 1st and 2nd class is insufficient and the government doesn't want to bankroll the Post Office then what would you suggest as a solution?

The current level of demand for Social Mail -(stamped 1st and 2nd class) has since, and probably since the 1960s when they introduced 2nd class, been insufficient to cover the costs of actually delivering it.

They were subsidised by the B2B and B2C bulk mail. Then Allan Leighton and Adam Crozier in the mid 0's come up with a brand new idea, along with PostCom, called Access Headroom and DSA.

Now DSA until recently was operating at a loss because of the deal Leighton and Crozier came up with, and ever since stamp prices have been going up. Unfortunately with a limit on how much stamp prices can rise the actual costs of social mail was never covered by the stamps.

My solution would be scrap headroom and DSA or introduce a levy on DSA if the final mile has to be delivered by the USO provider. In essence back to B2B and B2C mail subsidising stamped mail.