Supply Chain pay negotiations

[MinisterofCucumber]

The Government and Blairite labour politicians don't want to pay for the Post Office.

The British public want to keep the Post Office service they are used to. They don't want 'Post Office Light'.

The Government will not dare to admit they want to get rid of a valued British institution but they still want to overrule the wishes of the British public so they have got POL management to do their dirty work.

POL's business plan objective is to make POL self sufficient so the Government doesn't have to pay the Network Subsidy. POL management have decided what sort of Post Offices the public should have and that the network should be self sufficient. This plan is not new. The Supply Chain 5 to 11 plan back in 2005 had similar objectives. In 2011, surprising financial revelations about the state of RMG's accounts prompted an EU investigation into the UK's application for State Aid for the Government to take over RMG's pension liability. Now there is a real possibility that only Rescue Aid will be granted.

The question is how did POL management know that it would have to become self sufficient back in 2005?

Was there a plan to provoke an EU investigation into State Aid proposals?

POL workers are not getting their fair share of profit generated from external contracts. All the money is being used to reduce the Network Subsidy.

Why should we take real term pay cuts and the worsening of our terms and conditions so that the Government can reduce the Network Subsidy?

Why should the British public be forced to lose the sort of Post Office Network that it wants?

[Lynn Simpson]

My experience is that the structure of the Union is organised in a top-down pyramid structure in which lower levels are instructed to obey the orders of the level above them, much like an old fashioned paramilitary organisation. I believe this structure encourages authoritarianism. The experience of other posters on this site shows that I was not the only rep with an Area Rep that demanded unquestioning obedience.

You seem to be making a threat that some sort of action could be taken against me because you are offended because I have highlighted the fact that blind obedience is a feature of Naziism. The Nazis also didn't like freedom of speech. Will this fact offend you as well?

The members can only decide if a pay offer is fair if they are given all the details of management's final offer and are given time and the opportunity to debate the offer i.e. consulted. In the last few years, this has not happened and we have been given summaries of final offers that miss some details out and in one case, a mistake in the summary gave management the excuse to cut some members pay.

The members who actually work in Supply Chain should decide if the pay deal is acceptable and not be told what to do by a tiny elite whose main concern is to avoid being returned to their duties at any cost.

It's time to stop treating the members like children and to give us a full version of the final offer so that we can have an open and honest discussion about it. Don't keep us waiting until just before Christmas to release a few details of the offer so that we feel rushed into making a decision to get hold of our own back pay at a time when we are desperate for cash.

I am not going to get into a debate about trade union reps because your negative picture is certainly not my experience. I just hope bitter and twisted ex reps don't use this website to be personal about others just because they failed to get support in an election or something.

I do however agree that members should be given all the details of a final offer and then decide if it is acceptable. I don't understand what you mean when you state comments like 'being told what to do by a tiny elite', The democratic process involves the trade union and the business centrally coming to a 'negotiators agreement' (or talks break down as in Capita) and then the union makes a recommendation to the membership. That is basic 'trade unionism', not a difficult concept to understand to be honest. Members then kick it in to touch if they do not support it alternatively they vote for it.

Finally, I am curious to see where in my previous three line response where you could see any sort of 'threat'. Please point it out to me as I do not condone threats of any kind.

[MinisterofCucumber]

'Bitter and twisted' is a little bit strong.

I had a good idea of how I would be treated before I was elected but I don't regret serving my full term before standing down. On a personal level, it was the best year's development I have ever had but I probably faced more attacks than most reps do in a year. I would urge anyone to give it a go.

I wasn't made to feel very welcome by my Branch and IR reps but had a very warm welcome elsewhere in the Union. If unquestioning loyalty to 'superiors' is a requirement of a rep, I am obviously unsuitable for the role.

I don't hold any grudges and I like my Area Rep's style. He is a great character and it was a real privilege to witness someone with his audacity doing 'his thing'.

Similarly, there is huge pressure on full time reps to accept jobs in management and they live under the threat of being returned to duty. I can understand them buckling but if they all stood together, they could fight some of the injustice that 'slips under the radar'.

A lot of parties have been trying to wind me up and sometimes they have succeeded. If any comments I have made have offended individuals, I am truly sorry. I just don't like injustice.

[Lynn Simpson]

I have generally found union reps at all levels committed to improving workers pay, terms and conditions and having a fundamental commitment of seeking job security for the membership. Sometimes the going is extremely tough especially in todays climate of laissez faire policies and a free market economy. Competitive capitialism is a battle that we all face and one we cannot ignore however much any of us disagree in principle. It is essential that our union continues to fight for a decent living wage for its membership but sometimes this can only be achieved by being pragmatic and recognising the need to be progressive in order to achieve a sustainable business. This can sometimes be painful with changes to working practices that are hard to contemplate because they are different to what we consider the norm.

There is no question that we have to be competitive in order to stay in the game. Although this sticks in my throat, the fact is it is a reality and one that we all have to deal with. If that means thinking outside the box and being one step ahead of our competitors and two steps ahead of our employer then so be it. We need to put our faith in our union to know when to challenge, when to agree and when to man the barricades. The leadership has not let us down yet and in counters last year, we won the pay battle without actually losing a single days pay. The membership got totally behind the leadership and trusted them and our confidence in them was rewarded. You only have to look at the businesses first offer and compare to the final offer to realise how much our union centrally bargains and improves pay offers through negotiations. They need to be armed with the full support of the membership in order to strengthen their hand when negotiating on our behalf. This is called solidarity and one that has worked historically for countless years.

[cdpete2004]

If cash centre workers are the same as cash management or cash support, they deserve NO PAY. Was refused a 10k addition to my rem on Monday, clown on the phone wanted full details of a card account customer making that withdrawal, told clown that customer had authorisation and transaction had been accepted on horizon. Told clown there was no way I was taking any card account details, or any other futher details from customer, and certainly not passing details onto said clown. Clown refused to add 10k to my Tuesday rem. Result - Out of cash Wednesday lunchtime. Thankyou clown. Let's try to remember we're supposed to be on the same team here, clown, whoever and wherever you are in Bristol.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

If cash centre workers are the same as cash management or cash support.

I am not even in POL but even I recognise the difference.

Cash Centre workers are the ones that actually handle the cash in the centre and ride in the cash vans, so they will have nothing to do with Cash Support (A Call Centre). As to managers, how can you equate a worker to being the same as managers especially within any part of RMG.

I must also say I am disappointed to see someone on here who helps others, think its OK to tar a whole group of workers, because of the interaction you had with a single person. Okay its frustrating but to expand that experience to refusing other workers a well deserved and late pay rise is IMHO a little unfair.

[capitalbiker]

"think its OK to tar a whole group of workers, because of the interaction you had with a single person"

I can appreciate the cause of the original frusration having experienced it previuosly, it's not just one person at cash management, it's endemic at times, there seems to be a failure to understand the needs of the front line to have the tools to do the job, whether it be cash or stock of one kind or another.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I can appreciate the cause of the original frusration having experienced it previuosly, it's not just one person at cash management, it's endemic at times, there seems to be a failure to understand the needs of the front line to have the tools to do the job, whether it be cash or stock of one kind or another.

Thats a group wide problem to be honest. Management always seem to working against the front office no matter what function.

[cdpete2004]

My rems are ordered through cash management/cash support (for larger order requests), they are put through by cash management to the cash centre, and delivered by cvit. As I said in my opening, IF cash management / cash support are the same as (or part of) the cash centre, they don't deserve any kind of rise. I have to go through cash management, who can't authorise a very large rem increase, to cash support, who can, but wouldn't, and then asked to speak to someone else, who again refused. Not one individual, but three. I'd call this a 'group', wouldn't you ?

I think that just because the section is called cash MANAGEMENT it doesn't necessarily equate that they are ALL MANAGERS. Since first line cannot authorise any request for an increase in my rem over a certain amount (won't bore you with the details since you AREN'T part of POL), then if they are managers, which I doubt, but as you seem to know better, you can no doubt advise me otherwise, I'd like to know what grade of management they'd equate to in the outside world.

[MinisterofCucumber]

cdpete2004,

The first "clown" redirected you to Bristol but "clown" 2 and "clown" 3 refused your request with the result that you ran out of cash the next day.

The Bristol "clowns" refused your request because you would not give them your customer's card details. The Bristol "clowns" shouldn't have needed to ask you for these details because they ought to know how to be able to access someone who can verify if a transaction has gone through.

Whether there is a lack of system or a lack of training, or both, your frustrating experience is due to management failure. One of the reasons we think we deserve a pay rise is because we have to endure the sort of frustration you feel every single day. We are trying to provide a reliable service but we are being hampered by our management's obsession with cost cutting at the expense of service.

[cdpete2004]

Lack of system, lack of training, lack of referring me to a manager, lack of giving a toss ? If training isn't up to par, take it upon yourself to ask for further training. System sucks ? Learn to work around it. It's what everyone else does, in all walks of life. Or they walk, and get another job. Call centres around the world are looking out for people of the caliber of these guys.

My morale is pretty low too, my remuneration has been cut by 30% over 5 years. Apart from the junkies and shoplifters that I coudln't give a s**t about though, I do my best to provide good service, if I tell a customer I CAN'T do something, I tell them why and refer them to someone who may be able to help further or explain more fully why it CAN'T be done. I don't tell them I WON'T do it, or make some ridiculous, fatuous request for needless information that I have no business and no right to ask for anyway. Big difference. I DON'T take out my frustrations on the people I work with, and serve. (Disclaimer here : Junkies and thieves are NOT people).

[MinisterofCucumber]

I have to go through cash management, who can't authorise a very large rem increase, to cash support, who can, but wouldn't, and then asked to speak to someone else, who again refused. Not one individual, but three. I'd call this a 'group', wouldn't you ?

Was the third person you spoke to a manager?

As you point out, frontline staff are not allowed to authorise the amount you wanted so you were probably passed on to a manager who refused your request. You chose to run your own small business franchise and the Bristol lot chose to be employees in a large public service. There is a difference. We have to follow procedure. RMG are trying to get rid of workers and if we don't follow procedure, we will get sacked. When the manager refused your request he was probably following procedure.

How would you like it if Bristol told you, "If you don't like running a Post Office, run a MacDonalds instead?"

Anyway, when are we going to get the full, unsummarised pay offer?

[cdpete2004]

Unfortunately I have to sell the business first. That's in hand. Meanwhile, I need the tools to do the job.

And yes, I have walked away from jobs in the past, and will probably do so in the future, if I am unhappy with the pay, the conditions, the management.

If it weren't for the investment I put into the business, believe me, I wouldn't be sitting on my arse right now whining and moaning about the unfairness of it all. I'd be gone already, or serving my period of notice, and searching for something else. Those who do complain do nothing of any good for their colleagues, the organisation they work for (however screwed up that may be) or their clients and customers. So do everyone a favour, if you don't like it, GET OUT ! and give soemone else a chance.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Are you saying, "I don't want you to behave like a public sector employee, I want you to pretend you are a small business owner. I want you to pretend that employment law, trade union rights and civil liberties don't exist. I want you to stop complaining to and about your employer. I want you to stop trying to right wrongs and accept that management is going to change the Post Office Network into something the British public don't want. If you can't agree to this, you should f**k off" ?

[cdpete2004]

Ministerofcucumber, Yes ! Finally, you get it.