Richard Barker Departs

[fishtank]

If i was to walk into Tesco and the person who's job it was to put my stuff through the till and take my money tried to start a fake "conversation" in a vain attempt to sell me something i didn't want...i would shop at Asda.
I guess that's why these companies with a great deal more selling experience than POL ...don't.
I wonder why POL think they know better?

Even my bank,who would sell body parts for profit....don't engage in "conversation" pressure selling.

[FinancialSpecialist]

I have been in the business a few years, I just haven't only worked for POL and therefore think that everything is unjust and unfair because I have had experience of other companies, including banks, who trust me are a hell of a lot worse.

Billy I wasn't referring directly to you when I was saying some counter staff who don't have conversations, there are a million different types of colleague in the business, and I am really not trying to tar everyone with the same brush. I personally haven't come across any staff who ignore business as usual to refer, but I have come across who sometimes fail to do business as usual, and certainly who fail to have conversations but I recognise that there are all types.

In the office that I am working in now, I have been surprised that every counter colleague says "thank you for waiting", "would you like a mobile top up?", etc. To be entirely honest, in previous offices I was one of the doubters who thought that this was all a little much, however providing a streamlined experience, where there is consistency and not desperation about sales really does work. When there is a queue in the office I am in, someone always goes out to the queue, and as the customers are used to this they see it is a helpful gesture and do not view the FS or meeter greeter with suspicion and in fact a lot of business is gained in this way.

I am the first to think that some of the old style conversations are flawed, but I do believe they help people get over their fears in at least mentioning products to customers in the first instance. As confidence grows it shouldn't be necessary, and clerks and FS alike should then feel comfortable to introduce things in their own, more genuine way.

Ultimately the business has changed from predominantly customer service to sales and this understandably has caused concern to a lot of people. This has been the case for a few years now and will not change, so anyone who has difficulties referring, etc. should be speaking to their FS or manager and asking for coaching, rather than clamming up and getting nervous. In a previous office, I offered coaching to any clerk who wanted it - this made me nervous as it is not something I had done before, and I am aware that in POL it has been used at times as an almost punishment. Two colleagues asked for coaching, and surprisingly were two who consistently tried to refer, and weren't in the category that don't bother. I found out that they were nervous about savings products and compliance and the coaching was really useful to all of us and increased sales dramatically.

I made a conscious decision to offer coaching rather than suggest to the BM that we get everyone to do it, however this meant that the same old faces who don't do their job, didn't want to know.

In any other business that I have worked in, the ones who didn't want to know would've left or been fired years ago, however in POL they seem to just be able to hang on and get the same bonus or lack thereof as everyone else. The people who do work and try their best feel hard done by because they are either earning the bonus or losing out on a bonus due to the others.

From what I have read on here though some people really have a hard time from very tough managers and feel under incredible pressure on a daily basis. I am thankful to say that other than the occasional hefty push from our CAM, my area seems to be free from this.

[Blue8]

Financialspecialist I think you are very lucky just wish I worked in an Office like yours

[FinancialSpecialist]

If i was to walk into Tesco and the person who's job it was to put my stuff through the till and take my money tried to start a fake "conversation" in a vain attempt to sell me something i didn't want...i would shop at Asda.
I guess that's why these companies with a great deal more selling experience than POL ...don't.
I wonder why POL think they know better?

Even my bank,who would sell body parts for profit....don't engage in "conversation" pressure selling.

This is true, if you were in Tesco and someone engaged in a fake conversation, you wouldn't buy anything from them. That's the same in the Post Office. However, if someone appropriate for the job of customer service, with a friendly demeanor spotted a genuine need that you had and spoke to you about it, you would respond accordingly. I have worked for a big name bank, in customer service and was encouraged to pressure sell to get leads to the sales team. This didn't involve introducing a product and seeing if the customer wanted to speak to someone (which is all a counter clerk should be asked to do), but was asked to really go through the ins and outs of the product and in a much more advisory approach.

So much negativity - do you not wonder why there are offices that flourish and thrive (even in disadvantaged areas), and there are offices that consistently under achieve and miss sales targets? Look closer and these are the offices that consistently miss Effect scores and mystery shops. This isn't a coincidence.

I know it would be easier for everyone concerned to think that I am a naive FS, new to the business, but I have been around and worked for a few big companies - the Post Office is no different from any other company. Where is does stand out is in the length of service of the majority of the staff and therefore staff who are unaware of any organisation outside of POL.

[billyhayes]

...however in POL they seem to just be able to hang on and get the same bonus...

This is another fave of mine. Especially when some wonker in my office says "£106 bonus, is that all?" when they don't do jack all to make it higher.
There is a couple of us though that have now thought to ourselves, bollocks I'll say as I see. so we give it some of the old, "K'in 'ell, what the f@@k have you been doing the last quarter apart from downselling SD to Recordeds" etc etc They soon STFU after a bit of this.

[Mrwhippy]

I know it would be easier for everyone concerned to think that I am a naive FS, new to the business, but I have been around and worked for a few big companies - the Post Office is no different from any other company. Where is does stand out is in the length of service of the majority of the staff and therefore staff who are unaware of any organisation outside of POL.

I think you have this ar*e about face, outside workers new to to business don't realise how much in the sh*t POL is, they are sold at interview a magical company full of promise .

Reality usually kicks in after about a week when it dawns on the newbies our client base and targets don't and won't ever match up.

So after 25 years i'm hanging in for VR, too right and there are many more like me

[The BFO]

ALTHOUGH... Of course come the inevitable warm-downs or carpeting in the managers office to 'update' they can at least say, "I have had 20 conversations, all said no, but I still had 20 conversations". Manager is 'happy' so to speak, "All you can do is ask." they reply.
Then there'll be a couple of us who sit there bashing specials and PF ins and overs priorities, passports etc etc, (sound familiar Kathleen1?), generating REAL income, whilst our efforts are in very real terms, scuppered by someone sat right next to us talking all their own customers OUT of a special... "recorded will do you I think" or 'saving' them £8 on a Global Priority and lumping them with Global Value. Or my very favourite, "I can check your passport for you, BUT it will cost you £8.17, you realize that?"

Absolutely agree, and then there are the ‘good sellers’ who actually are nothing but. They spend huge amounts of time discussing their last holiday, their family, ailments common to both the customer and someone else they know, dogs, and myriad other items of drivel.

I would like to see ‘Staff Cost to Income Ratios’ on an individual basis for all staff, including Financial Specialists. Ours is a very nice lad, but… completely ineffective. Whilst others who are seen as weak work like hell and generate Income by dint of the sheer number of Passports and Special Deliveries they process.

I think we can probably agree on one thing; Management ‘have made a lot of mistakes’. Many of us ‘Old Timers’ had been asking for Financial Specialists for a very long time before they were finally introduced, and some of us get a bit tired of being written off as ‘negative’, when actually we have seen a lot, and could be of great assistance if only someone had the intelligence to stop and listen for a minute.

[Blue8]

The trouble is when they do listen unless your agreeing with them then your negative!!

[FinancialSpecialist]

I have been in the business a lot longer than a few weeks.

So mister hanging on for VR, what would be your cure for the Post Office if you were in charge? People seem to have a lot to say about past failings of management and the current system. I agree that there have been mammoth cockups, but how would you do things differently going forward, not just moaning about past?

By the way, I completely agree that individual income ratios should be sought for everyone - I wonder what the union and you would say about this if it really were to happen? Most companies have performance related pay increases already.

Whether you like it or not, passports and the like are demand based and although check and sends can be influenced, quite often those with ineffective or non-existent sales conversations also fail to effectively introduce check and sends, but can process them as well as anyone. If the FS is encouraged to process family check and send applications they should be able to cross sell to other products and have a consent to contact, something that someone processing on the counter may not.

I am 100% sure had I been in the Post Office for 20 years plus I too would be frustrated by past decisions made by management but I would realise that what was done was done. The same as on a personal level, there is no use crying over spilled milk, it only turns you into an unhappy and bitter person. Better to make the most of what you have and get on with it, it makes life a hell of a lot easier.

And if it really is that bad, save yourself the years of suffering and make room for someone who wants the job.

[kathleen1]

Its alright saying "make room for somebody who wants the job", that to me is management speaking already.People can't leave without any EVR like mr whippy i have been in POL for 25years and i need my redundancy to keep me ticking by and believe me financial specialist i have earned every penny.I'm sick and tired of outsiders saying "the job has changed", i never signed a new contract to sell and why don't they get rid of people like me and employ people like you.We are sick and tired of saying it in our office our old job, yes is still there serving the same old customers day in and day out and they love us for it.
The staff ratio and income bring it on i serve all day bum on seat doing all my top ups, specials, bureau counter(yes me) i will get a bloody good bonus.I know for a fact i earn my wages i don't think a FS brings more income than me unless they are in an affluent area, most of them stand there all day like dummies watching the queue head out the door waiting for me to get a referral i could never understand that one.When you have been in as long as most of the staff who challenge you i will take notice we have seen more charters, changes, forward plans, five year plans than anyone else in the business which have all failed miserable and don't even mention "CONSIGNIA" which cost millions.

[Mrwhippy]

Its alright saying "make room for somebody who wants the job", that to me is management speaking already.People can't leave without any EVR like mr whippy i have been in POL for 25years and i need my redundancy to keep me ticking by and believe me financial specialist i have earned every penny.I'm sick and tired of outsiders saying "the job has changed", i never signed a new contract to sell and why don't they get rid of people like me and employ people like you.We are sick and tired of saying it in our office our old job, yes is still there serving the same old customers day in and day out and they love us for it.
The staff ratio and income bring it on i serve all day bum on seat doing all my top ups, specials, bureau counter(yes me) i will get a bloody good bonus.I know for a fact i earn my wages i don't think a FS brings more income than me unless they are in an affluent area, most of them stand there all day like dummies watching the queue head out the door waiting for me to get a referral i could never understand that one.When you have been in as long as most of the staff who challenge you i will take notice we have seen more charters, changes, forward plans, five year plans than anyone else in the business which have all failed miserable and don't even mention "CONSIGNIA" which cost millions.

Could not agree more with Kathleen1

And correct me please but I did not say I was unhappy just hanging out for VR.

I am on £20,000 a year for 35 hours work saying "Thanks for Waiting" and introducing POL Products to my customers.

I too earn good bonus with £1000 for my EMS role and high quarterly bonuses meeting income target as a office.

I have and will move with the times, nothing compares to be the old days where we built the trust with our customers that is now being exploited to gain sales

And I love these

[PO1]

Now that Richard's off I think Paula's on in the guise of FinancialSpecialist:

The biggest problem for POL in this climate, in my view, is not the upper management (which I admit have made a lot of mistakes), but the frontline staff on "countdown" and who couldn't give 2 sh***s about targets, their office or the future of their colleagues, they just want their redundancy and to be away.

As someone not in the business a huge length of time, I find this an extremely selfish and hard thing to deal with. How could these people who have worked together for years really have such little respect for themselves or their fellow workers? We don't all want to be paid off and leave, it is not your right to just work on in the "old Post Office way", using this as an excuse to do as little as you can to get through the day, until one day the business is doing so badly that your office is closed and you are paid off. If these people really want out so badly, then why don't they just go? No one will be crying to keep them.

Ultimately the business has changed from predominantly customer service to sales and this understandably has caused concern to a lot of people. This has been the case for a few years now and will not change.

the Post Office is no different from any other company.

So mister hanging on for VR.....if it really is that bad, save yourself the years of suffering and make room for someone who wants the job.

I work in an office and the 10 staff who work there have over 200 years of SERVICE to the Post Office, some 30+. EVERYONE would take VR if it were offered tomorrow. I find it insulting that anyone could pass comment about my or anyone else's quality of work that they have put in over decades of hard, and I mean hard, work or the work that we do now still providing a SERVICE. But it's only 50 weeks to 31st March 2012 and the real propect of VR. Only bad thing is the new breed inhabiting our shores from failed bank/retail jobs will be the first to go, but then again that's not such a bad thing, is it?

[FinancialSpecialist]

No matter what anyone says, I will never see it as a god given right that just because you have worked for 25 years that you should just be paid off to get rid of you. That is completely ludicrous. Everyone should work hard all through their lives and not just for the first so many years, then coast by for the final years waiting to be made redundant for early retirement, because they don't like the fact that in 25 years the business has changed.

I get on very well with the vast majority of people who have been in the Post Office for their entire working careers, but I will never agree with those who refuse to do anything outside of their job description of 25 years ago - catch a grip!

It wasn't just in the grand old days that colleagues built trust with the customers, there are a lot of customers who feel just as well treated as always. I have built up a solid customer base across 3 branches, customers who call me and pop in and see me when they are in town. I don't do this through pressure selling, but because I take an interest in the customers and get to know them, this is why I like my job, something I fear a lot of you don't. In the end of the day that means that I take enjoyment out of my 35 hours a week, while some of you begrudge them. That is why I say that if you don't like it, save yourself the aggro and stress and get a job you do like - when you finally get the voluntary redundancy, will the years of doing something you hate have been worth it?

[onlyanother30years]

when you finally get the voluntary redundancy, will the years of doing something you hate have been worth it?

Yeah Baby ! Yes Yes Yes Every Moment !!!!!

[PO1]

No matter what anyone says, I will never see it as a god given right that just because you have worked for 25 years that you should just be paid off to get rid of you. That is completely ludicrous.

No, it's called MTSF and the section on VR in particular (Appendix 6 sections 2.2.2 and 2.1).

Thanks to the direction that they're sending us in, it's what we're all heading for come the mutualisation.

Take time out to look at the bigger picture my friend namely the BIS document http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/bu ... ce-network