Communication Workers Union leaders hail completion of Kretinsky’s EP Group buyout of Royal Mail

[tramssirhc]

Man you are delusional and really have no idea how the other half really live.
Have you been to these places? I have travelled the world and seen at close hand how they do live, it's not some sort of far left utopia, it's a place where they live in fear without the freedom that you and i enjoy to express their views. You know that freedom you express on here that in North Korea/China/Russia... you name it, would have you re-educated or worse!
I have no idea if you are the chief spokesman but before you spout your left wing diatribe have a think about it.

'the other half'? Half the world don't live in your definition of communism. Your focus is on a small part of a very big world and narrowed on your stereotyping of a handful of countries. A significant number of the worlds working class live under dictatorships and monarchies which are cruel and without even the slightest type of democracy. Why no mention of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Argentina, Rwanda? Are you really opposed to communism or is it that you are simply a little Englander harking after the days of empire when the working class were the subject of persecution by the likes of Winston Churchill?

[tramssirhc]

Dear rank-and-file leaders,

You will probably get more support if you focus on the immediate issues that we are all facing - the attacks on our jobs, pay and conditions - without drifting into debates about geopolitical topics like China, Russia and Iran which may serve to confuse or alienate people. We are not part of the Bolshevik Revolution and seeking to overthrow the government in a coup d'etat - we are just concerned about what's happening in Royal Mail, namely the decline of our service, the pressure on our workloads and the erosion of our rights.

Doubt they will as they never reveal anything about there aims to help postal workers despite being asked on here many times.

Seconded. Just constant depressionism. Akin to a reign of terror by the nazis. A constant bombardment of nastiness.

A few posts on here are now "akin to the reign of terror by the nazis". Really. Moon71 is the definition of unhinged, posting this at 03.59 in the morning. Not only is this a filthy smear against the PWRFC and WSWS but it also makes light of the crimes of fascism. No accident that, as the only one with form when its comes the the far-right is Moon71.

We've been through the meaning of bigot before. The unscrupulous canvassing of hatred with choice language and barraging sustainment of vile and hostility towards our employer an union is unprecedented. That's bigotry.

People see it for what it is, but i still ask, what do you have to offer? Obviously you'll just turn it around with no answers, again, or belittle like always.

It's just a forum. If you want to make a rival union, do it. But just don't sit here peddling hatred and then do nothing.

And no, I don't want to be in a tea club full of tears. And let's be honest, the zoom meetings are like a cult brain washing session.

End the debate, and do something, offer something, anything.

Been waiting months.

How would Moon71 know anything about the 'zoom' meetings. Has Moon71 actually been on one?

Yes.

And by the way, referring to me as right wing is simply wrong. Comments like that are just used to smear as always. I'm a labour supporter.

And again please, what exactly does the PWRFC want. OK to set up teaclubs and zoom meeting, then what? Negotiate on our behalf, all out strike? Any answers to the life long question that we've been waiting months for.

Your responses show exactly why we need a CWU, because these PWRFC look amateur.

Moon71 would do well to spend some time looking at Moon71's post history. It's a litany of reactionary right wing drivel to the point of supporting right and far right factions . Moon71 cannot erase that history and serves as a warning to the working class that the CWU is a refuge for awful types.

[Sean06]

Dear rank-and-file leaders,

You will probably get more support if you focus on the immediate issues that we are all facing - the attacks on our jobs, pay and conditions - without drifting into debates about geopolitical topics like China, Russia and Iran which may serve to confuse or alienate people. We are not part of the Bolshevik Revolution and seeking to overthrow the government in a coup d'etat - we are just concerned about what's happening in Royal Mail, namely the decline of our service, the pressure on our workloads and the erosion of our rights.

Doubt they will as they never reveal anything about there aims to help postal workers despite being asked on here many times.

Just like the CWU

Well don't know where your hiding but they at least try.as for pwrfc absolutely nothing.

The CWU doesn't try at all. Members experience their efforts everyday and are suffering as a result.

Could not be more pleased with the area rep we have at the moment.now ffs for the last time of asking please please please tell us the pwrfc,s alternatives ( nothing but crap posted by yourself an stage 3).

[Sean06]

Dear rank-and-file leaders,

You will probably get more support if you focus on the immediate issues that we are all facing - the attacks on our jobs, pay and conditions - without drifting into debates about geopolitical topics like China, Russia and Iran which may serve to confuse or alienate people. We are not part of the Bolshevik Revolution and seeking to overthrow the government in a coup d'etat - we are just concerned about what's happening in Royal Mail, namely the decline of our service, the pressure on our workloads and the erosion of our rights.

Doubt they will as they never reveal anything about there aims to help postal workers despite being asked on here many times.

That's patent nonsense. Look up postal workers on the WSWS/SEP website.

You serious i actually have more important things in my life other than read bullshit.

[moon71]

Dear rank-and-file leaders,

You will probably get more support if you focus on the immediate issues that we are all facing - the attacks on our jobs, pay and conditions - without drifting into debates about geopolitical topics like China, Russia and Iran which may serve to confuse or alienate people. We are not part of the Bolshevik Revolution and seeking to overthrow the government in a coup d'etat - we are just concerned about what's happening in Royal Mail, namely the decline of our service, the pressure on our workloads and the erosion of our rights.

Doubt they will as they never reveal anything about there aims to help postal workers despite being asked on here many times.

Seconded. Just constant depressionism. Akin to a reign of terror by the nazis. A constant bombardment of nastiness.

A few posts on here are now "akin to the reign of terror by the nazis". Really. Moon71 is the definition of unhinged, posting this at 03.59 in the morning. Not only is this a filthy smear against the PWRFC and WSWS but it also makes light of the crimes of fascism. No accident that, as the only one with form when its comes the the far-right is Moon71.

We've been through the meaning of bigot before. The unscrupulous canvassing of hatred with choice language and barraging sustainment of vile and hostility towards our employer an union is unprecedented. That's bigotry.

People see it for what it is, but i still ask, what do you have to offer? Obviously you'll just turn it around with no answers, again, or belittle like always.

It's just a forum. If you want to make a rival union, do it. But just don't sit here peddling hatred and then do nothing.

And no, I don't want to be in a tea club full of tears. And let's be honest, the zoom meetings are like a cult brain washing session.

End the debate, and do something, offer something, anything.

Been waiting months.

How would Moon71 know anything about the 'zoom' meetings. Has Moon71 actually been on one?

Yes.

And by the way, referring to me as right wing is simply wrong. Comments like that are just used to smear as always. I'm a labour supporter.

And again please, what exactly does the PWRFC want. OK to set up teaclubs and zoom meeting, then what? Negotiate on our behalf, all out strike? Any answers to the life long question that we've been waiting months for.

Your responses show exactly why we need a CWU, because these PWRFC look amateur.

Moon71 would do well to spend some time looking at Moon71's post history. It's a litany of reactionary right wing drivel to the point of supporting right and far right factions . Moon71 cannot erase that history and serves as a warning to the working class that the CWU is a refuge for awful types.

Trams, you used to post such informative information until you joined this cult.

Now your just a complete fascist. You've become the joke of the forum, and in all honesty, the worst representative of the PWRFC, who apart from 3-4 people supporting you on this forum, have protrade this PWRFC as untrustworthy and in all honesty, a joke.

And still haven't answered the question. Just answer the questions or shut up. Muck spreading instead of answering the eternal question.

What an embarrassing representative.

[tramssirhc]

Dear rank-and-file leaders,

You will probably get more support if you focus on the immediate issues that we are all facing - the attacks on our jobs, pay and conditions - without drifting into debates about geopolitical topics like China, Russia and Iran which may serve to confuse or alienate people. We are not part of the Bolshevik Revolution and seeking to overthrow the government in a coup d'etat - we are just concerned about what's happening in Royal Mail, namely the decline of our service, the pressure on our workloads and the erosion of our rights.

Doubt they will as they never reveal anything about there aims to help postal workers despite being asked on here many times.

Seconded. Just constant depressionism. Akin to a reign of terror by the nazis. A constant bombardment of nastiness.

A few posts on here are now "akin to the reign of terror by the nazis". Really. Moon71 is the definition of unhinged, posting this at 03.59 in the morning. Not only is this a filthy smear against the PWRFC and WSWS but it also makes light of the crimes of fascism. No accident that, as the only one with form when its comes the the far-right is Moon71.

We've been through the meaning of bigot before. The unscrupulous canvassing of hatred with choice language and barraging sustainment of vile and hostility towards our employer an union is unprecedented. That's bigotry.

People see it for what it is, but i still ask, what do you have to offer? Obviously you'll just turn it around with no answers, again, or belittle like always.

It's just a forum. If you want to make a rival union, do it. But just don't sit here peddling hatred and then do nothing.

And no, I don't want to be in a tea club full of tears. And let's be honest, the zoom meetings are like a cult brain washing session.

End the debate, and do something, offer something, anything.

Been waiting months.

How would Moon71 know anything about the 'zoom' meetings. Has Moon71 actually been on one?

Yes.

And by the way, referring to me as right wing is simply wrong. Comments like that are just used to smear as always. I'm a labour supporter.

And again please, what exactly does the PWRFC want. OK to set up teaclubs and zoom meeting, then what? Negotiate on our behalf, all out strike? Any answers to the life long question that we've been waiting months for.

Your responses show exactly why we need a CWU, because these PWRFC look amateur.

Moon71 would do well to spend some time looking at Moon71's post history. It's a litany of reactionary right wing drivel to the point of supporting right and far right factions . Moon71 cannot erase that history and serves as a warning to the working class that the CWU is a refuge for awful types.

Trams, you used to post such informative information until you joined this cult.

Now your just a complete fascist. You've become the joke of the forum, and in all honesty, the worst representative of the PWRFC, who apart from 3-4 people supporting you on this forum, have protrade this PWRFC as untrustworthy and in all honesty, a joke.

And still haven't answered the question. Just answer the questions or shut up. Muck spreading instead of answering the eternal question.

What an embarrassing representative.

Imagine being so bankrupt that you cannot hide your shame like Moon71 is.

[moon71]

Still can't answer the question. Useless.

[scotchy1962]

Man you are delusional and really have no idea how the other half really live.
Have you been to these places? I have travelled the world and seen at close hand how they do live, it's not some sort of far left utopia, it's a place where they live in fear without the freedom that you and i enjoy to express their views. You know that freedom you express on here that in North Korea/China/Russia... you name it, would have you re-educated or worse!
I have no idea if you are the chief spokesman but before you spout your left wing diatribe have a think about it.

'the other half'? Half the world don't live in your definition of communism. Your focus is on a small part of a very big world and narrowed on your stereotyping of a handful of countries. A significant number of the worlds working class live under dictatorships and monarchies which are cruel and without even the slightest type of democracy. Why no mention of Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Argentina, Rwanda? Are you really opposed to communism or is it that you are simply a little Englander harking after the days of empire when the working class were the subject of persecution by the likes of Winston Churchill?

Daft as well as stupid, you're really going down in my estimate!
"The other half" is not a literal meaning of half the world, i mean the down trodden in countries all over the world and there are plenty of them.
You on the other hand live in a fairly liberal democracy who allow people with your views, and plenty of worse views, to live freely within our society.
You are the one who's views closely align to far-left/communism and North Korea/China/Russia are the main exponents of your views so why wouldn't i mention them?
A "Little Englander" is hardly what someone from Northern Ireland would be classed as, i have no wish for a empire and Churchill died a long time ago and what he did or didn't do has no bearing on anything i say.
You will have to get the "Little red book out" to find a reply.

[moon71]

How many times will we have to shut this trams dude down. It's tiresome. How many arguments has he lost to date? He's not won one.

His best response to me is to cry some militant posts I made 15 years ago. I've changed since then and in all honesty have become gratefull of my secure employment in 37 years service.

Really worry about his mental health and sad pursuit of a cause that's going no where. He won't even answer where the PWRFC want to go. Has been ask more than 20 times, but never offered anything but tea clubs and zoom meetings and bigotry. I've attended these grooming meetings, 171 people attended. How many people work for RM?

Admittedly the CWU were pushed into an advisory role after losing the strike in 2022. If you can't see that then let that be news. The CWU are now just advisors, and they've given us some small concessions in this new model of employment in the business.

I only worry that since the strikes in 2022 were lost there's a VERY small minority that still want to fight to worsen my legacy contract.

One more time Trams, once you set up you tea clubs, where you want to go? Full out strike? Work to rule? Overtime bans?

You've become the figurehead of the joke that is the PWRFC.

[stage3]

This thread has been deliberately diverted by the usual critics of the PWRFC away from the original posts, describing the article as 100 percent correct and the conduct of the CWU and Labour government backing the Kretinsky take-over as shameful.

Our critics have no answer to this. Instead, the pile on by embittered defenders of the CWU and, in Moon71’s case of our beloved “employer”, is filled with anti-socialist and anti-communist invective--including denouncing fellow postal workers as “fascists” and Nazis.

This poisonous response is made necessary because our posts are read by thousands and are among the most viewed on this news section. Hence the substitution of personal attacks and political smears for honest debate.

Then there is Moon71’s continued declaration that the Post Workers Rank and File Committee does not provide any alternative solutions.
We have replied to all this repeatedly. But for the sake of clarity:

The aim of the PWRFC is to organise postal workers independently of the Communication Workers Union leadership.

We have called for many initiatives to be taken, up to and including strike action when necessary. But no practical measures will, by themselves, alter the fact that our union is led by a clique dedicated to suppressing opposition to Royal Mail/EP Group and working with management to impose jointly agreed attacks on our working conditions.

Answering those who betray us means bringing together all those who want to fight in a common organisation, so we are no longer isolated individuals facing a well-funded enemy that controls our union.

Our opponents want no part of any such fightback, which is why they are so hostile to what Moon71 recently denounced as “tea clubs”. As Moon71 admits, he has “in all honesty… become grateful of my secure employment in 37 years service... I only worry that since the strikes in 2022 were lost there's a VERY small minority that still want to fight to worsen my legacy contract.”

There you have it from the horses’ mouth. Others say the same in so many words or keep quiet about how closely connected they are to the CWU apparatus.

The World Socialist Web Site and the Socialist Equality Party are Trotskyists. The attacks by our critics are based on the shopworn lie equating us with Stalinist regimes that restored capitalism decades ago, and which our movement fought against to defend international socialism at the cost of thousands of lives.

We make no attempt to conceal our political loyalties and fight openly for our programme among workers. What we don’t do is make support for the SEP a precondition for RM workers who are sick of those who roll over or collude with the company from joining the PWRFC. There are no easy answers for any of us, but this is how to begin to change things.

[tramssirhc]

This thread has been deliberately diverted by the usual critics of the PWRFC away from the original posts, describing the article as 100 percent correct and the conduct of the CWU and Labour government backing the Kretinsky take-over as shameful.

Our critics have no answer to this. Instead, the pile on by embittered defenders of the CWU and, in Moon71’s case of our beloved “employer”, is filled with anti-socialist and anti-communist invective--including denouncing fellow postal workers as “fascists” and Nazis.

This poisonous response is made necessary because our posts are read by thousands and are among the most viewed on this news section. Hence the substitution of personal attacks and political smears for honest debate.

Then there is Moon71’s continued declaration that the Post Workers Rank and File Committee does not provide any alternative solutions.
We have replied to all this repeatedly. But for the sake of clarity:

The aim of the PWRFC is to organise postal workers independently of the Communication Workers Union leadership.

We have called for many initiatives to be taken, up to and including strike action when necessary. But no practical measures will, by themselves, alter the fact that our union is led by a clique dedicated to suppressing opposition to Royal Mail/EP Group and working with management to impose jointly agreed attacks on our working conditions.

Answering those who betray us means bringing together all those who want to fight in a common organisation, so we are no longer isolated individuals facing a well-funded enemy that controls our union.

Our opponents want no part of any such fightback, which is why they are so hostile to what Moon71 recently denounced as “tea clubs”. As Moon71 admits, he has “in all honesty… become grateful of my secure employment in 37 years service... I only worry that since the strikes in 2022 were lost there's a VERY small minority that still want to fight to worsen my legacy contract.”

There you have it from the horses’ mouth. Others say the same in so many words or keep quiet about how closely connected they are to the CWU apparatus.

The World Socialist Web Site and the Socialist Equality Party are Trotskyists. The attacks by our critics are based on the shopworn lie equating us with Stalinist regimes that restored capitalism decades ago, and which our movement fought against to defend international socialism at the cost of thousands of lives.

We make no attempt to conceal our political loyalties and fight openly for our programme among workers. What we don’t do is make support for the SEP a precondition for RM workers who are sick of those who roll over or collude with the company from joining the PWRFC. There are no easy answers for any of us, but this is how to begin to change things.

Spot on. The CWU adherents are simply exposing the CWU for what it is - as broken as the likes of Moon71.

[Jefferson Starfish]

The aim of the PWRFC is to organise postal workers independently of the Communication Workers Union leadership.

How do you think it's going so far?

From what I can see you've got 300 followers on Facebook, you've had a Zoom meeting where 170 tuned up and most people on here think you're crackpots!

You're not exactly pulling up trees are you?

[Tman]

"Trotskyists"?

They used to say that there were more Trots in Oxford and Cambridge than the whole of the USSR etc countries. There's probably far more now.
Another out-dated, out-moded, useless, disregarded and unworkable concept like Flat Earthers and p*ss-drinkers, left behind by a better public education system.

[Sean06]

The aim of the PWRFC is to organise postal workers independently of the Communication Workers Union leadership.

How do you think it's going so far?

From what I can see you've got 300 followers on Facebook, you've had a Zoom meeting where 170 tuned up and most people on here think you're crackpots!

You're not exactly pulling up trees are you?

[moon71]

[/quote]

Spot on. The CWU adherents are simply exposing the CWU for what it is - as broken as the likes of Moon71.
[/quote]

Broken, me? Because I'm happy at my work? What would you base that on or is it your cheap stab to bring my happy attitude down to your level?

Trams, the mirror is needed. You hate your job, the cwu, and probably your environment. You can change.

In a business like this there so so many roles that could make you happy, like allot of us. Being happy at work is easy and if your unhappy, do something about it.

You really must be the gloom of your office.