“Newbies” v “Legacy”

[Agencyoap]

To argue that Newbies work harder than legacy staff, or vice versa, is nonsense
BUT what people need to understand is that’s Newbies are being s**t on by the company and the unions - but generally NOT by other staff
There are exceptions but generally:
We’ve never had proper inductions -
No written formal training re performance - safe places or neighbour attempt guidelines
I still, after over 2 years in contract, have no written confirmation of my shift times - no newbie has that I work with - on Sundays were told when we arrive for work what our finish time is by what ever manager decides that day - sometimes not even told till half way through the shift
We are told daily by managers to doorstep - many newbies know no better snc believe it’s the norm
I’ve never had a fire drill
Most, if not ALL newbies in our office have no knowledge of “commit to deliver” - they are pressurised to take too much out so work on to complete
Not 1 of the 30-40 newbies I work with has ever been given a posting peg -
We have NO barrows between the 30 DPRs - the newbies have no idea that they’re meant to be available
Many of them are not even aware of rest breaks -
We have NO clear bags in our dept for damaged boxes - most newbies are not aware of their existence - so damaged boxes get left in porches
They are not told that they can claim a days pay if their rest day falls on a BH -

Last year the managers and unions didn’t tell the Newbies in DPRs FOR OVER 2 MONTHS that seasonal working had reduced each day by approx 20 mins - it was only when a legacy staff asked them why they were working late every day

This and more is not THEIR/MY fault - the company and the unions deliberately keep all knowledge away so they can manipulate the new starters -

WE DONT WORK HARDER - but believe me the job is made so so so much harder for us deliberately -

Even down to the new contracts - they are so vague and generic deliberately

I’ll make clear - I work with some great Newbies and Legacy staff - and a few s**t ones from both camps - BUT THE STAFF ARE NOT THE PROBLEM - it’s the corrupt managers and union reps

[Kenfandango]

I've been a postie for 4 years now and every new batch of employees that comes in does so on a slightly different contract.

The Sunday issue was an issue when I started too- no idea which manager will be in, all of them seemed to want people starting at different times with no official word from RM or the CWU to clarify.

We have 3 people that started a week ago, one of whom had 2 days with a coach before being chucked on a walk with a staff member who is less than a year in the job on a walk neither of them had done before because too many people are off sick. They instantly got a reputation as "lazy" from the legacy staff in that section for being unable to complete. The people who started a year ago have had no contracts or meetings to let them know if they've passed probation.

By and large the managers I've encountered aren't "corrupt." It's easy to see it as such, and there are definitely a few, but most of them are people who don't know what they're meant to be doing from one day to the next because the layers of management above them aren't communicating properly either. Suddenly they get some new instructions and have to contradict everything they told you the day before (letters aren't important/ pull out all first class....) The way they cope with this is to take the path of least resistance- postie A is 25 years into the job and knows to argue, postie B is 9 months into the job and will go over to complete because they think they have to, so postie B gets s**t on not out of spite, but to make a spreadsheet look better. It doesn't matter if it happens to postie B every day, as long as the manager above them doesn't show up demanding to know why the spreadsheet is not as good as predicted.

The reps are in a similar position where the CWU announces that something is happening then just avoids the subject for as long as possible while it demonstrably doesn't happen (equalisation of terms for new starts has been "in the early stages of talks" since before I started.)

[norris9]

Why are you comparing the training of newbies v legacy?...

Legacy weren't trained well either. They should actually have a manual about everything you need to know that's handed to you on day 1.


If your day off is on a day there's a meeting, managers never come and update you about anything you missed.

[Smoothbackground]

Agree with lots you say, mate. But we definitely do work harder!

Training at your place sounds a bit of a shitshow, frankly, as the training at our gaff is top notch (yes, really), and there are no shenanigans like the ones you outline. New starters are given a posting peg on their first day in the office, usually when they do the dog awareness module with the WPC. We have very clear delivery and safeplace training, and there is def no doorstepping allowed (except for perishable goods such as flowers on a second attempt — very rare in itself).

Yes, the bank holiday credit situation has proven to be a nightmare. Earlier this year I told our lead COM that whenever my rest day falls on a BH, I will be automatically having Wednesday in that week off in lieu, which they really don’t like (but had no choice to agree to given the deliberate cockups by our most unhelpful bookroom PHG in processing over a year’s worth of BH credits for the entire cohort of new starters). This has sorted the problem once and for all.

Unfortunately we suffer from the same lack of equipment. I use my old Amazon trolley, which when on firms duties, DPR, etc I couldn’t do without. It is a vital tool — yet I have to provide my own because we have only two trolleys for the whole office. Don’t begrudge using my own equipment if I already own it, as otherwise my trolley would be sat idle, but others don’t have their own kit. The business needs to provide enough equipment.

No fire drill at our place in the 30 months I’ve been there. I was shown the fire exits on my first day there as a proper employee — though I hadn’t been shown them at all during the three months prior thereto that I worked there as an agency member of staff. The public and employers’ liability insurance certificate on display on the noticeboard is also out of date — I think there is a legal requirement for the current certificate to be prominently displayed.

[Woody84]

To argue that Newbies work harder than legacy staff, or vice versa, is nonsense
BUT what people need to understand is that’s Newbies are being s**t on by the company and the unions - but generally NOT by other staff
There are exceptions but generally:
We’ve never had proper inductions -
No written formal training re performance - safe places or neighbour attempt guidelines
I still, after over 2 years in contract, have no written confirmation of my shift times - no newbie has that I work with - on Sundays were told when we arrive for work what our finish time is by what ever manager decides that day - sometimes not even told till half way through the shift
We are told daily by managers to doorstep - many newbies know no better snc believe it’s the norm
I’ve never had a fire drill
Most, if not ALL newbies in our office have no knowledge of “commit to deliver” - they are pressurised to take too much out so work on to complete
Not 1 of the 30-40 newbies I work with has ever been given a posting peg -
We have NO barrows between the 30 DPRs - the newbies have no idea that they’re meant to be available
Many of them are not even aware of rest breaks -
We have NO clear bags in our dept for damaged boxes - most newbies are not aware of their existence - so damaged boxes get left in porches
They are not told that they can claim a days pay if their rest day falls on a BH -

Last year the managers and unions didn’t tell the Newbies in DPRs FOR OVER 2 MONTHS that seasonal working had reduced each day by approx 20 mins - it was only when a legacy staff asked them why they were working late every day

This and more is not THEIR/MY fault - the company and the unions deliberately keep all knowledge away so they can manipulate the new starters -

WE DONT WORK HARDER - but believe me the job is made so so so much harder for us deliberately -

Even down to the new contracts - they are so vague and generic deliberately

I’ll make clear - I work with some great Newbies and Legacy staff - and a few s**t ones from both camps - BUT THE STAFF ARE NOT THE PROBLEM - it’s the corrupt managers and union reps

[Mickeybrowneyes]

To argue that Newbies work harder than legacy staff, or vice versa, is nonsense
BUT what people need to understand is that’s Newbies are being s**t on by the company and the unions - but generally NOT by other staff
There are exceptions but generally:
We’ve never had proper inductions -
No written formal training re performance - safe places or neighbour attempt guidelines
I still, after over 2 years in contract, have no written confirmation of my shift times - no newbie has that I work with - on Sundays were told when we arrive for work what our finish time is by what ever manager decides that day - sometimes not even told till half way through the shift
We are told daily by managers to doorstep - many newbies know no better snc believe it’s the norm
I’ve never had a fire drill
Most, if not ALL newbies in our office have no knowledge of “commit to deliver” - they are pressurised to take too much out so work on to complete
Not 1 of the 30-40 newbies I work with has ever been given a posting peg -
We have NO barrows between the 30 DPRs - the newbies have no idea that they’re meant to be available
Many of them are not even aware of rest breaks -
We have NO clear bags in our dept for damaged boxes - most newbies are not aware of their existence - so damaged boxes get left in porches
They are not told that they can claim a days pay if their rest day falls on a BH -

Last year the managers and unions didn’t tell the Newbies in DPRs FOR OVER 2 MONTHS that seasonal working had reduced each day by approx 20 mins - it was only when a legacy staff asked them why they were working late every day

This and more is not THEIR/MY fault - the company and the unions deliberately keep all knowledge away so they can manipulate the new starters -

WE DONT WORK HARDER - but believe me the job is made so so so much harder for us deliberately -

Even down to the new contracts - they are so vague and generic deliberately

I’ll make clear - I work with some great Newbies and Legacy staff - and a few s**t ones from both camps - BUT THE STAFF ARE NOT THE PROBLEM - it’s the corrupt managers and union reps

Is says on your name that you are agency, have you been been given a contract recently or are you still agency.
You will not get the full training programme unless you have.
That should be a period of time with the workplace coach then 12 weeks on the same duty.
It generally happens in the units I have worked however it becomes trickier when a few people start at the same time.
I have to challenge your accusations that the union are somehow complicit in the poor treatment of the new contracted staff when they are fighting for your equalisation.
Your personal experience at your office isn't a reflection of everywhere or the union as a whole.
In the last communications from the union they assured that EP were committed to the agreed timeline for the flight path to equalisation which will include backdate of pay from September this year.
Maybe try and highlight with your rep that you feel the communications are poor as he may not be aware.
The DPR drivers could raise the extra hours worked as a grievance against the company and back pay for that period should be honoured.

[scotchy1962]

Agree with lots you say, mate. But we definitely do work harder!

Training at your place sounds a bit of a shitshow, frankly, as the training at our gaff is top notch (yes, really), and there are no shenanigans like the ones you outline. New starters are given a posting peg on their first day in the office, usually when they do the dog awareness module with the WPC. We have very clear delivery and safeplace training, and there is def no doorstepping allowed (except for perishable goods such as flowers on a second attempt — very rare in itself).

Yes, the bank holiday credit situation has proven to be a nightmare. Earlier this year I told our lead COM that whenever my rest day falls on a BH, I will be automatically having Wednesday in that week off in lieu, which they really don’t like (but had no choice to agree to given the deliberate cockups by our most unhelpful bookroom PHG in processing over a year’s worth of BH credits for the entire cohort of new starters). This has sorted the problem once and for all.

Unfortunately we suffer from the same lack of equipment. I use my old Amazon trolley, which when on firms duties, DPR, etc I couldn’t do without. It is a vital tool — yet I have to provide my own because we have only two trolleys for the whole office. Don’t begrudge using my own equipment if I already own it, as otherwise my trolley would be sat idle, but others don’t have their own kit. The business needs to provide enough equipment.

No fire drill at our place in the 30 months I’ve been there. I was shown the fire exits on my first day there as a proper employee — though I hadn’t been shown them at all during the three months prior thereto that I worked there as an agency member of staff. The public and employers’ liability insurance certificate on display on the noticeboard is also out of date — I think there is a legal requirement for the current certificate to be prominently displayed.

Hmmm Smooth, how exactly do you figure this one out, what parameters do you use to measure how much harder the newbies work or you in particular work than legacy posties. By the way i hate the whole"Legacy" thing as you are all posties.
Your need to create a divide because you have a bugbear with posties is a concern, i understand why you believe it, but seeing as how most of your gripes are things outside the control of normal posties, i don't know what you want them to do.
In delivery you all do essentially the same job, how you go about it, what training you get etc etc all varies office to office and what you experience has always gone on from long before your time. So you aren't really treated different it just feels like it to you.
I know you will continue on your quest to bash posties/union every chance you get and under the guise of being a newbie use it to push your agenda, says more about you than it does about the rest of them.

[SpacePhoenix]

Training has been crap for many years. Just the "ass covering stuff" like fire regs, mail security, manual handling, etc. After that it's here's the work area, here's the work, get on with it. You're expected to learn as you go.

[yellowbelly]

To argue that Newbies work harder than legacy staff, or vice versa, is nonsense
BUT what people need to understand is that’s Newbies are being s**t on by the company and the unions - but generally NOT by other staff
There are exceptions but generally:
We’ve never had proper inductions -
No written formal training re performance - safe places or neighbour attempt guidelines
I still, after over 2 years in contract, have no written confirmation of my shift times - no newbie has that I work with - on Sundays were told when we arrive for work what our finish time is by what ever manager decides that day - sometimes not even told till half way through the shift
We are told daily by managers to doorstep - many newbies know no better snc believe it’s the norm
I’ve never had a fire drill
Most, if not ALL newbies in our office have no knowledge of “commit to deliver” - they are pressurised to take too much out so work on to complete
Not 1 of the 30-40 newbies I work with has ever been given a posting peg -
We have NO barrows between the 30 DPRs - the newbies have no idea that they’re meant to be available
Many of them are not even aware of rest breaks -
We have NO clear bags in our dept for damaged boxes - most newbies are not aware of their existence - so damaged boxes get left in porches
They are not told that they can claim a days pay if their rest day falls on a BH -

Last year the managers and unions didn’t tell the Newbies in DPRs FOR OVER 2 MONTHS that seasonal working had reduced each day by approx 20 mins - it was only when a legacy staff asked them why they were working late every day

This and more is not THEIR/MY fault - the company and the unions deliberately keep all knowledge away so they can manipulate the new starters -

WE DONT WORK HARDER - but believe me the job is made so so so much harder for us deliberately -

Even down to the new contracts - they are so vague and generic deliberately

I’ll make clear - I work with some great Newbies and Legacy staff - and a few s**t ones from both camps - BUT THE STAFF ARE NOT THE PROBLEM - it’s the corrupt managers and union reps

Those items I've enlarged (as a 'legacy' of a mere 10 years), I was never informed/told about. I still resent to this day the amount of paid breaks I didn't take because I was not informed by a manager (or colleagues - as I was mainly working solo HCT) that I was entitled to them and I felt under pressure as a 'newbie' to complete the walk I was on. It wasn't until I went on a van share after about 4/5 months I became aware of the break entitlements for different duty lengths. Ever since I've taken my breaks.

Oh and damage bags - we've been using that many for crap Amazon boxes that we've stopped using them for Amazon. We either just safe place it as is, or if the customer is at the doorstep, I say take a photo of it as you've received it and go back to Amazon if something is missing.

[ted_e_bear]

On the subject does anyone know what the latest overtime rates are for legacy ?
The 1st 10 hours over 37 and the slightly rate after that ?

We've got some legacy and new that like to get loads of overtime in so I thought out of interest I'd see if there's a point when new overtakes legacy taking into account new get a higher rate when it hits over 40hrs.

Inc delivery supplement legacy is now £556.93 before deductions for 37 hours.

[SpacePhoenix]

Oh and damage bags - we've been using that many for crap Amazon boxes that we've stopped using them for Amazon. We either just safe place it as is, or if the customer is at the doorstep, I say take a photo of it as you've received it and go back to Amazon if something is missing.

A god few of the big Amazon boxes are already falling apart when they arrive at the inward MC. A good few times I've gone to pick one up and the contents instantly break through the bottom of the box.

[menditsa]

Regarding bringing in your own equipment (Torch and sackbarrow) I was told this is not permitted and only RM supplied equipment is to used.

Something to do with liability.

[LouBarlow]

Agree with lots you say, mate. But we definitely do work harder!

Training at your place sounds a bit of a shitshow, frankly, as the training at our gaff is top notch (yes, really), and there are no shenanigans like the ones you outline. New starters are given a posting peg on their first day in the office, usually when they do the dog awareness module with the WPC. We have very clear delivery and safeplace training, and there is def no doorstepping allowed (except for perishable goods such as flowers on a second attempt — very rare in itself).

Yes, the bank holiday credit situation has proven to be a nightmare. Earlier this year I told our lead COM that whenever my rest day falls on a BH, I will be automatically having Wednesday in that week off in lieu, which they really don’t like (but had no choice to agree to given the deliberate cockups by our most unhelpful bookroom PHG in processing over a year’s worth of BH credits for the entire cohort of new starters). This has sorted the problem once and for all.

Unfortunately we suffer from the same lack of equipment. I use my old Amazon trolley, which when on firms duties, DPR, etc I couldn’t do without. It is a vital tool — yet I have to provide my own because we have only two trolleys for the whole office. Don’t begrudge using my own equipment if I already own it, as otherwise my trolley would be sat idle, but others don’t have their own kit. The business needs to provide enough equipment.

No fire drill at our place in the 30 months I’ve been there. I was shown the fire exits on my first day there as a proper employee — though I hadn’t been shown them at all during the three months prior thereto that I worked there as an agency member of staff. The public and employers’ liability insurance certificate on display on the noticeboard is also out of date — I think there is a legal requirement for the current certificate to be prominently displayed.

Hmmm Smooth, how exactly do you figure this one out, what parameters do you use to measure how much harder the newbies work or you in particular work than legacy posties.

I can’t speak for Smooth but in our office it is just a fact that they work harder as they do more hours. 40 vs 37. Given they work longer days and some sundays it is a pretty fair comment to make. Considering every other way they are shat on I have every sympathy for them and the sooner contracts are equalised the better for everyone.

[Smoothbackground]

Hmmm Smooth, how exactly do you figure this one out, what parameters do you use to measure how much harder the newbies work or you in particular work than legacy posties. By the way i hate the whole"Legacy" thing as you are all posties.
Your need to create a divide because you have a bugbear with posties is a concern, i understand why you believe it, but seeing as how most of your gripes are things outside the control of normal posties, i don't know what you want them to do.
In delivery you all do essentially the same job, how you go about it, what training you get etc etc all varies office to office and what you experience has always gone on from long before your time. So you aren't really treated different it just feels like it to you.
I know you will continue on your quest to bash posties/union every chance you get and under the guise of being a newbie use it to push your agenda, says more about you than it does about the rest of them.

I use the “outdoor span” as the primary parameter to measure how much harder the newbies work. Whereas lots of staff, both legacy-contract and new-entrant colleagues, have the luxury of spending a large proportion of their shift time doing indoor, less arduous and less physical work, then doing a four-hour or so at most delivery, most 40-hr new entrants are doing seven hours or more of outdoor work each day.

[scotchy1962]

Agree with lots you say, mate. But we definitely do work harder!

Training at your place sounds a bit of a shitshow, frankly, as the training at our gaff is top notch (yes, really), and there are no shenanigans like the ones you outline. New starters are given a posting peg on their first day in the office, usually when they do the dog awareness module with the WPC. We have very clear delivery and safeplace training, and there is def no doorstepping allowed (except for perishable goods such as flowers on a second attempt — very rare in itself).

Yes, the bank holiday credit situation has proven to be a nightmare. Earlier this year I told our lead COM that whenever my rest day falls on a BH, I will be automatically having Wednesday in that week off in lieu, which they really don’t like (but had no choice to agree to given the deliberate cockups by our most unhelpful bookroom PHG in processing over a year’s worth of BH credits for the entire cohort of new starters). This has sorted the problem once and for all.

Unfortunately we suffer from the same lack of equipment. I use my old Amazon trolley, which when on firms duties, DPR, etc I couldn’t do without. It is a vital tool — yet I have to provide my own because we have only two trolleys for the whole office. Don’t begrudge using my own equipment if I already own it, as otherwise my trolley would be sat idle, but others don’t have their own kit. The business needs to provide enough equipment.

No fire drill at our place in the 30 months I’ve been there. I was shown the fire exits on my first day there as a proper employee — though I hadn’t been shown them at all during the three months prior thereto that I worked there as an agency member of staff. The public and employers’ liability insurance certificate on display on the noticeboard is also out of date — I think there is a legal requirement for the current certificate to be prominently displayed.

Hmmm Smooth, how exactly do you figure this one out, what parameters do you use to measure how much harder the newbies work or you in particular work than legacy posties.

I can’t speak for Smooth but in our office it is just a fact that they work harder as they do more hours. 40 vs 37. Given they work longer days and some sundays it is a pretty fair comment to make. Considering every other way they are shat on I have every sympathy for them and the sooner contracts are equalised the better for everyone.

Ah but Lou how does working more hours mean you work "harder" than anyone else, it just means you work for longer than someone on less hours not that you physically work harder.
I have no doubt they are given a hard time or "shat" on as you like to call it, but aren't we all at times, until you decide to stand your ground and put up some resistance that's the way it has always been in any job.
Job equalisation should be a priority on anybodys list, blaming someone for something they have no control over shouldn't.