Toxic work environment.

[Ren Hoëk]

Where do we think the root cause of toxic DO environments lye and how to we fix it?

Im not out to just blame managers either. Us posties can be just as bad. I find DO's to be very hostile places. Posties can be very abrasive to managers and colleagues and very hostile to change. I don't find we are very supportive of each other at all and if you express any interest in the business or wanting to do a good job at all it is met with hostility. Express any interest in wanting to further your career in RM and you may as well be the devil.

Managers I find treat everyone with suspicion and think we are all just lazy. Little to no appreciation of the efforts we put in on some days. Especially on days where the weather can be extremely challenging. For example, i'm nearly 20 years in to the job and get zero respect from management because of it. No appreciation that perhaps I know what i'm talking about or to be trusted. I may as well have just started yesterday.

Trying to get short notice leave, ringing in sick or any query answered is an uphill battle. Having to tell your boss every single day that you cant complete to then have them question you why with that scrunched up face is demoralising. I cant do overtime regularly because of child care commitments. How then are you meant to move up in ones career if your first point of contact thinks you are lazy, lying s**t. You can't build up any good will or favour by completing/extending because you have commitments.

All in all its become a nasty place to be.

[heraldmoth]

Simple answer is (myself included) most of us have a chip on our shoulders and go in with the wrong attitude

[norris9]

Managers I find treat everyone with suspicion and think we are all just lazy. Little to no appreciation of the efforts we put in on some days.

Having to tell your boss every single day that you cant complete to then have them question you why with that scrunched up face is demoralising.

It's this ^^^^.

But I honestly don't know how much of the above is down to not trusting us, how much is to do with them being so out of touch with how long a round can take, or if a lot of their attitude is simply down to being the only tactic they can use in the hope of making us either rush round and complete, or go over time to complete.

The latter will not work with most posties. Most posties try their best to get what they can done and most take a LOT of shortcuts, door stepping etc. People don't want to go over time because of the low wages and exhausting nature of the job. There is no incentive to go over.

I wish they'd set the business up so the jobs were doable in the time, or some other well thought out way of doing things would enter management's minds and be implemented. For some reason they have set up the business so rounds are too big. This has surely been done on purpose, and not because they actually think the rounds are completable. Either they do not care about the Ofcom rules at all, or they had hoped most of us would stay out and complete the rounds.

Some ideas:

-Why can't they employ some staff to mop up what we bring back.
-Why can't they advertise overtime... I never see any advertised. You have to ask manager's about overtime rather than them put signs up.
-Why can't some rounds be completable in time and other's 'not', those that are not should be offered to those who want regular overtime.

[Ren Hoëk]

Simple answer is (myself included) most of us have a chip on our shoulders and go in with the wrong attitude

I can attest to this some days. If iv had a week off il go back with the intent on being more positive but usually within a day of the same old s**t from management i'm back to being demoralised.

[Ren Hoëk]

Managers I find treat everyone with suspicion and think we are all just lazy. Little to no appreciation of the efforts we put in on some days.

Having to tell your boss every single day that you cant complete to then have them question you why with that scrunched up face is demoralising.

It's this ^^^^.

But I honestly don't know how much of the above is down to not trusting us, how much is to do with them being so out of touch with how long a round can take, or if a lot of their attitude is simply down to being the only tactic they can use in the hope of making us either rush round and complete, or go over time to complete.

The latter will not work with most posties. Most posties try their best to get what they can done and most take a LOT of shortcuts, door stepping etc. People don't want to go over time because of the low wages and exhausting nature of the job. There is no incentive to go over.

I wish they'd set the business up so the jobs were doable in the time, or some other well thought out way of doing things would enter management's minds and be implemented. For some reason they have set up the business so rounds are too big. This has surely been done on purpose, and not because they actually think the rounds are completable. Either they do not care about the Ofcom rules at all, or they had hoped most of us would stay out and complete the rounds.

Some ideas:

-Why can't they employ some staff to mop up what we bring back.
-Why can't they advertise overtime... I never see any advertised. You have to ask manager's about overtime rather than them put signs up.
-Why can't some rounds be completable in time and other's 'not', those that are not should be offered to those who want regular overtime.

The only reason I can think that the rounds have become oversized is to wilfully delay the mail to increase productivity. Instead of going to 10 houses with 1 letter we fail it for days on end and then go to those same 10 houses with 3 bits of mail. Obvs expanded to over 800 drops. I generally don't care if thats the plan as long as I don't have to constantly explain why im failing when they know full well and also the fact that its against the law.

[norris9]

The only reason I can think that the rounds have become oversized is to wilfully delay the mail to increase productivity. Instead of going to 10 houses with 1 letter we fail it for days on end and then go to those same 10 houses with 3 bits of mail. Obvs expanded to over 800 drops. I generally don't care if thats the plan as long as I don't have to constantly explain why im failing when they know full well and also the fact that its against the law.

Yes, it does every posties head in that wants to finish on time. Being asked why you haven't completed on a regular basis is seriously annoying, or even being questioned once or twice a year can be annoying. I get it - it's probably psychological from management, or them letting their frustrations out as they know management above them will be on their backs, but it doesn't get us anywhere. I am not going to go any faster, I probably save the company 20-30mins a day in taking a shiz tonne of shortcuts and I still don't finish my massive job. They will still question my speed. This means they definitely want me taking shortcuts and even want me walking as fast as physically possible. It's ridiculous.

Those arguments are a waste of time and stress posties out. Management need to come up with a better way of organising and managing the workload. Going after hard working posties isn't the answer.

[smok3y666]

In our office 90% staff 10% managers. Area rep even said about getting a moderation team in to try fix things.

[Ren Hoëk]

The only reason I can think that the rounds have become oversized is to wilfully delay the mail to increase productivity. Instead of going to 10 houses with 1 letter we fail it for days on end and then go to those same 10 houses with 3 bits of mail. Obvs expanded to over 800 drops. I generally don't care if thats the plan as long as I don't have to constantly explain why im failing when they know full well and also the fact that its against the law.

Yes, it does every posties head in that wants to finish on time. Being asked why you haven't completed on a regular basis is seriously annoying, or even being questioned once or twice a year can be annoying. I get it - it's probably psychological from management, or them letting their frustrations out as they know management above them will be on their backs, but it doesn't get us anywhere. I am not going to go any faster, I probably save the company 20-30mins a day in taking a shiz tonne of shortcuts and I still don't finish my massive job. They will still question my speed. This means they definitely want me taking shortcuts and even want me walking as fast as physically possible. It's ridiculous.

Those arguments are a waste of time and stress posties out. Management need to come up with a better way of organising and managing the workload. Going after hard working posties isn't the answer.

I think the managers are defo put under pressure and that trickles down to us. The problem being no amount of pressure can magically make me complete a duty thats too big. All I know is im sick to the teeth of being in constant disagreement with my boss. Its not healthy. I want to work in a happy and positive environment but the way things are set up thats impossible.

[scoobydo79]

Simple answer is (myself included) most of us have a chip on our shoulders and go in with the wrong attitude

That’s because We have been made like that. Not because We want to be like it

[qwerty2]

Simple answer is (myself included) most of us have a chip on our shoulders and go in with the wrong attitude

That’s because We have been made like that. Not because We want to be like it

Simon Thompson caused most of this - the piece of ****

[crazyshrew]

The thing that keeps me biting my tongue and not shooting my mouth off is the knowledge that DO (and probably MC) management are managers in name only. They are not permitted to manage in any meaningful way, they are simply puppets - ventriloquist dummies - if you will. Nothing more than mouthpieces for those in the ivory towers, paid incredibly handsomely to be blindly obedient and question nothing.
Some are too naive and led too sheltered of a life to realise that this is their position, others are completely aware (maybe from the start or have come to realise it over time) and don't give a damn what they are told to do/how they are told to treat us as long as they get they get paid.

I suspect that big management restructuring a few years back was nothing to do with getting strong players in place to build strong teams etc, but getting the most malleable and ignorant in to positions where the most damage can be done against CWU grades with little to no effort put in by the top brass and certainly without them getting their hands dirty.

My feelings for frontline management range from pity, for they way they are treated - to disgust at their willingness to bend over backwards and allow themselves to be treated like that in exchange for 30 pieces of silver.


If RM had any genuine intention of healing the tensions they would have a serious look at their management organisation. Perhaps a full reshuffle, moving individuals in to offices where they are hardly known so they can start fresh, with less languishing resentment towards them filling the air every single day.

OPGs are certainly not completely innocent
While there are a few who will always be incapable of being managed and will blame everyone and everything else for their problems or shortfalls
I do however believe the vast majority of us just want to keep our heads down and get on with our jobs without all the unnecessary nonsense. But the provocation we've faced over the last 18months, and repeated and increasing frustrations over little things not getting done resulting in our job being 20x harder than necessary has put us in an extremely heightened self defence mode, where our manager is the enemy and we're just waiting for the next attack.
This will take a long time to fully settle down but RM is the side that has the power to make the changes that might start to calm the waters

[mwalker88]

The thing that keeps me biting my tongue and not shooting my mouth off is the knowledge that DO (and probably MC) management are managers in name only. They are not permitted to manage in any meaningful way, they are simply puppets - ventriloquist dummies - if you will. Nothing more than mouthpieces for those in the ivory towers, paid incredibly handsomely to be blindly obedient and question nothing.
Some are too naive and led too sheltered of a life to realise that this is their position, others are completely aware (maybe from the start or have come to realise it over time) and don't give a damn what they are told to do/how they are told to treat us as long as they get they get paid.

I suspect that big management restructuring a few years back was nothing to do with getting strong players in place to build strong teams etc, but getting the most malleable and ignorant in to positions where the most damage can be done against CWU grades with little to no effort put in by the top brass and certainly without them getting their hands dirty.

My feelings for frontline management range from pity, for they way they are treated - to disgust at their willingness to bend over backwards and allow themselves to be treated like that in exchange for 30 pieces of silver.


If RM had any genuine intention of healing the tensions they would have a serious look at their management organisation. Perhaps a full reshuffle, moving individuals in to offices where they are hardly known so they can start fresh, with less languishing resentment towards them filling the air every single day.

OPGs are certainly not completely innocent
While there are a few who will always be incapable of being managed and will blame everyone and everything else for their problems or shortfalls
I do however believe the vast majority of us just want to keep our heads down and get on with our jobs without all the unnecessary nonsense. But the provocation we've faced over the last 18months, and repeated and increasing frustrations over little things not getting done resulting in our job being 20x harder than necessary has put us in an extremely heightened self defence mode, where our manager is the enemy and we're just waiting for the next attack.
This will take a long time to fully settle down but RM is the side that has the power to make the changes that might start to calm the waters

I agree with this, unfortunately I think the 'take a long time to settle down' and 'calm the waters' sentiment just means you OPG's are getting f**ked one way or another.

[scotchy1962]

You have to remember, managers are just mouthpieces for those above them and unfortunately we are at the bottom of this giant ponsi s**t scheme.
All they are paid to do is their masters bidding, without question and no discussions. They might appear to care about you, but they don't really.
Who to blame, well the managers in place are spineless feckers for not firstly standing up and saying these are unachievable and secondly putting in the correct information everyday to highlight when the dutys don't get completed or don't go out at all.
We all know they fiddle the books, but then again should we really care?
We all have contracts and as long as we fulfil our weekly hours anything else is our choice and how they fill those hours is up to them.
I know it's instilled in us all to "complete" but the company has changed the rules so we may as well change too.

[yubin282]

It's called knowledge and experience

[Ren Hoëk]

We all have contracts and as long as we fulfil our weekly hours anything else is our choice and how they fill those hours is up to them.
I know it's instilled in us all to "complete" but the company has changed the rules so we may as well change too.

This I think is the crux of it at the moment. Im happy to behave this way but its the fact you still get snarky comments from the managers about not completing. It's also a great loss to the company, although they fail to see it yet, that they have a once hard working and motivated workforce be reduced to this kind of culture. They really s**t the bed.