CWU and EP LTB 393/24 – ROYAL MAIL GROUP TAKEOVER BID

[Perseus]

I stand corrected. Martin Walsh has stated that of the 37 offices some by deploying this pilot will create surplus staff, but they will not be moved, there will be work for them. I'm not convinced.

MW also said staff in the pilot offices will be offered increased VR, which suggests they'll be reduced numbers of staff in those offices?

What if staff don't want the VR? It's been stated they won't be moved, and there will be no compulsory redundancies, but there will be staff made surplus. Annoy people until they leave?
Or maybe that is one of the criteria they used to select the 37 offices - ones most likely to accept VR.
I know the pilots have been chosen to be a mix of city/town/rural but the real indicator in all this is how many 1st class letters the average duty of 600-800 houses gets daily. 30-40 maybe? Add them to the parcels for that duty on a standard, non Christmas time of year levels, and you are lucky to be hitting 100 delivery points instead of the usual 80% of 600 houses on an average day. And that is for every second walk in the office, swapping over the next day. Duty A gets everything one day, whereas B gets only 100 items (half of which letters) which can be done in 2 hours instead of 5 if driven round (good for the environment )
I'm hopeful we can get updates on these pilots to see how they actually work in practice.

I thought the plan was for the DPR driver to cover two rounds each day. so that's 4+ hours of delivery each day not just the 2 hours?

What I can't get my head around is the 2c duty, as I took out part of a duty today which hadn't gone out this week and virtually every post had mail, what normally takes 1 hours took me 1.5 hours, there's no way I could have done the full duty. You also get lumbered with delivering D2D's for every house at the start of the week if they've all been thrown in by mid week. I feel the rounds will have to be cut by 25% to make them achievable but TB claimed they weren't being reduced.

yeah doing a 2c duty on a Wednesday when the last time it was out was a Monday, using this new method will be..... interesting.

I don't think every office has DPR routes either, so we will see if they get chosen depending on that.

Take a shared van duty as they are now, what are we talking to deliver the full duty (between 2) 9-10 hours? (4.5-5hrs pp)
This new plan sounds like 1 half of it one day (5 hours) then 1C and parcels on the other side (2 hours).
That's a time saving of 30%.
Will that translate to 30% less staff needed on delivery?

Surely people (using a shared van as an example) will now have to deliver over a larger area to scale up their now 7 hours duty (between 2 people) to the original 10 hours (5 hours each).

[Smoothbackground]

I definitely think dpr duties will be one of the first things to go.

Letters are in terminal decline.
Parcels are where the money is. The parcel sorting machines seem to prefer larger parcels.
They talk about the need to grow the next day delivery market.
I would say the only job that is safe in RM is a DPR driver.

I completely agree. Anyone speculating to the contrary is deluding themselves.

DPR driver jobs are the most unsafe because Parcelforce are very short of work and it will get worse after Christmas .
Most likely Parcelforce will be join up with royal mail next year and then no need for DPR routes ,
which makes sense anyway as there are too many people going to the same addresses .

There might be some unifying of the networks to feed Parcelforce some large and heavy work in the short term but I can’t see the operations being consolidated beyond that. Interesting to see what will happen to PFW in the medium to long term.

There’s going to be one network.

That was the plan, yes. But I don’t think it will ever happen. Not least just for purely practical reasons, such as RM’s core network not being equipped for moving or handling XL consignments. PFW will be sold off at the earliest possible opportunity as a loss-making subsidiary to some venture capitalists who will rebrand it as a large and heavy niche provider. “RM Letters” has no choice but to concentrate on next-day/overnight parcels for itself alone if it wants to continue to exist.

[postslippete]

I personally have a good feeling about this takeover. I feel as if Kretinsky actually wants to grow the business and has ideas that will come to fruition next year.

At the end of the day the company was on a massive downward trajectory, this deal at least gives me some hope. Maybe we will get offices that run more efficiently where the workload is fair. It isn't working like that now and hasn't for a long time.

If it doesn't work out and mail is dying out and the gig economy is too much competition for us - then so be it....there may not be a way to compete without joining them in gig land.

I wish I shared your optimism norris but sadly I agree with your last sentence.

The downward trajectory by the RM board imho has been entirely deliberate to allow DK to takeover ownership of the company. Kretinksy first invested 5% in RM during lockdown and has consistently upped his stake to the extent where he is now set to become the new owner after the sale has been approved by the government.

I personally feel that DK will say anything to get the takeover done and whilst the Union will talk the talk over legally binding agreements, people forget that RM have to failed to adhere to agreements made with the CWU in the past. The main one which springs to mind was the "groundbreaking" agreement which prevented RM from employing new workers on different terms to existing staff.

RM has invested billions of pounds in parcels over the last few years but don't wish to use the hundreds of millions of pounds that they make in parcels to help subsidise the letters business. This is why those running the business are so keen to get rid of the USO on letters. A private investor is only looking to put their money where they make profit! There is absolutely no enthusiasm for growing the letters business preferring to price it out of its existence. I believe this to be a major oversight because unfortunately the parcels business is very competitive and we are directly competing with businesses that have a gig economy style model.

[sindba]

Only... we aren't in direct competition with anyone, even for parcels, because we are the national service provider.

This is the crucial bit that the billionares just don't understand.

[TopperGas]

Only... we aren't in direct competition with anyone, even for parcels, because we are the national service provider.

This is the crucial bit that the billionares just don't understand.

What's a national service provider of parcels? If a customer want's a parcel delivered then they just choose who they consider is the best value?

[Barnacle]

Only... we aren't in direct competition with anyone, even for parcels, because we are the national service provider.

This is the crucial bit that the billionares just don't understand.

What's a national service provider of parcels? If a customer want's a parcel delivered then they just choose who they consider is the best value?

He meant that we are the only parcel delivery operator to deliver everywhere nationally. Amazon delivers nothing on the Isle of Wight for example.

[postslippete]

That was the plan, yes. But I don’t think it will ever happen. Not least just for purely practical reasons, such as RM’s core network not being equipped for moving or handling XL consignments. PFW will be sold off at the earliest possible opportunity as a loss-making subsidiary to some venture capitalists who will rebrand it as a large and heavy niche provider. “RM Letters” has no choice but to concentrate on next-day/overnight parcels for itself alone if it wants to continue to exist.

The business has always wanted a single optimised parcel network. Obviously, having both RM and Parcelforce cover the same ground adds both cost and inefficiency as an overall business as well as increasing our carbon footprint. Rico Back wanted to create a new legal trading entity for Parcelforce and invoke TUPE and I have a feeling that PWF may be sold off in the long term. We seem to be taking on board many of the larger parcels and PWF appears to be deliberately run very inefficiently.

[TopperGas]

The CWU going to town on social media tonight regarding all the concessions they've claimed they've won, you sense DK is up to something by seemingly caving into the CWU's demands, when he helped to virtually destroy it during the last bitter dispute.

[TopperGas]

Slightly different wording on Workplace, it seems RM are only going to consider how pay etc might be harmonise, not they are going to harmonise it, they also.suggest it's been agreed the pension surplus will be split between investment in RM and the employees, so DK/RM will be gaining from half of the pension surplus.

"Continued recognition of CWU as a trade union and honouring of existing CWU agreements, including the ongoing implementation of the Business Recovery, Transformation and Growth Agreement.
Commitment to review existing voluntary redundancy terms, sick pay arrangements and overtime/scheduled attendance rates.
Commitment to explore a new career path for new entrant employees to see how we might harmonise their pay and terms and conditions over time.
Confirmation that any pension surplus from the CARE and Cash Balance schemes will be split between investment into Royal Mail and for the benefit of employees, subject to the agreement of the Pension Trustees.
Commitment to introduce an employee incentive scheme linked to local performance measures and to conduct a joint Royal Mail-CWU review of existing efficiency and productivity measures and targets.
CWU and Royal Mail management to commence discussions about the 2025 pay deal as planned"

[postslippete]

Only... we aren't in direct competition with anyone, even for parcels, because we are the national service provider.

This is the crucial bit that the billionares just don't understand.

We are only the universal service provider on letters. We tend to deliver most parcels to the outlier areas that our competitors don't mainly because we have to deliver letters there. RM are not going to turn down this work when couriers like Amazon give us an undisclosed number of deliveries per year and many of them are not in these areas.

[77SAMPOST77]

That was the plan, yes. But I don’t think it will ever happen. Not least just for purely practical reasons, such as RM’s core network not being equipped for moving or handling XL consignments. PFW will be sold off at the earliest possible opportunity as a loss-making subsidiary to some venture capitalists who will rebrand it as a large and heavy niche provider. “RM Letters” has no choice but to concentrate on next-day/overnight parcels for itself alone if it wants to continue to exist.

The business has always wanted a single optimised parcel network. Obviously, having both RM and Parcelforce cover the same ground adds both cost and inefficiency as an overall business as well as increasing our carbon footprint. Rico Back wanted to create a new legal trading entity for Parcelforce and invoke TUPE and I have a feeling that PWF may be sold off in the long term. We seem to be taking on board many of the larger parcels and PWF appears to be deliberately run very inefficiently.

None of the above comments about Parcelforce make any sense ,
They have been trialing taking royal mail parcels for the last 6 months and the trials are going well ,
also they have recently bought brand new vans , Why would you do that if you are running the company down ready to sell ?
They also have 25% owner drivers that can deliver the parcels cheaper , and last time it was mentioned Parcel force was not losing money it was breaking even , How much money are the inefficient DPR routes losing ? .

[Barnacle]

That was the plan, yes. But I don’t think it will ever happen. Not least just for purely practical reasons, such as RM’s core network not being equipped for moving or handling XL consignments. PFW will be sold off at the earliest possible opportunity as a loss-making subsidiary to some venture capitalists who will rebrand it as a large and heavy niche provider. “RM Letters” has no choice but to concentrate on next-day/overnight parcels for itself alone if it wants to continue to exist.

The business has always wanted a single optimised parcel network. Obviously, having both RM and Parcelforce cover the same ground adds both cost and inefficiency as an overall business as well as increasing our carbon footprint. Rico Back wanted to create a new legal trading entity for Parcelforce and invoke TUPE and I have a feeling that PWF may be sold off in the long term. We seem to be taking on board many of the larger parcels and PWF appears to be deliberately run very inefficiently.

None of the above comments about Parcelforce make any sense ,
They have been trialing taking royal mail parcels for the last 6 months and the trials are going well ,
also they have recently bought brand new vans , Why would you do that if you are running the company down ready to sell ?
They also have 25% owner drivers that can deliver the parcels cheaper , and last time it was mentioned Parcel force was not losing money it was breaking even , How much money are the inefficient DPR routes losing ? .

The calculator broke when they were trying to add up DPR losses.

In the Financial Statement it doesn’t list DPR separately but they know. They make veiled references to parcels being more expensive to deliver than letters and increased staffing costs - DPR has added 30+ staff to our office alone.

[77SAMPOST77]

That was the plan, yes. But I don’t think it will ever happen. Not least just for purely practical reasons, such as RM’s core network not being equipped for moving or handling XL consignments. PFW will be sold off at the earliest possible opportunity as a loss-making subsidiary to some venture capitalists who will rebrand it as a large and heavy niche provider. “RM Letters” has no choice but to concentrate on next-day/overnight parcels for itself alone if it wants to continue to exist.

The business has always wanted a single optimised parcel network. Obviously, having both RM and Parcelforce cover the same ground adds both cost and inefficiency as an overall business as well as increasing our carbon footprint. Rico Back wanted to create a new legal trading entity for Parcelforce and invoke TUPE and I have a feeling that PWF may be sold off in the long term. We seem to be taking on board many of the larger parcels and PWF appears to be deliberately run very inefficiently.

None of the above comments about Parcelforce make any sense ,
They have been trialing taking royal mail parcels for the last 6 months and the trials are going well ,
also they have recently bought brand new vans , Why would you do that if you are running the company down ready to sell ?
They also have 25% owner drivers that can deliver the parcels cheaper , and last time it was mentioned Parcel force was not losing money it was breaking even , How much money are the inefficient DPR routes losing ? .

The calculator broke when they were trying to add up DPR losses.

In the Financial Statement it doesn’t list DPR separately but they know. They make veiled references to parcels being more expensive to deliver than letters and increased staffing costs - DPR has added 30+ staff to our office alone.

Exactly , it makes sense to give Parcelforce anything over shoe box size and get rid of these loss making DPR routes .

[Barnacle]

That was the plan, yes. But I don’t think it will ever happen. Not least just for purely practical reasons, such as RM’s core network not being equipped for moving or handling XL consignments. PFW will be sold off at the earliest possible opportunity as a loss-making subsidiary to some venture capitalists who will rebrand it as a large and heavy niche provider. “RM Letters” has no choice but to concentrate on next-day/overnight parcels for itself alone if it wants to continue to exist.

The business has always wanted a single optimised parcel network. Obviously, having both RM and Parcelforce cover the same ground adds both cost and inefficiency as an overall business as well as increasing our carbon footprint. Rico Back wanted to create a new legal trading entity for Parcelforce and invoke TUPE and I have a feeling that PWF may be sold off in the long term. We seem to be taking on board many of the larger parcels and PWF appears to be deliberately run very inefficiently.

None of the above comments about Parcelforce make any sense ,
They have been trialing taking royal mail parcels for the last 6 months and the trials are going well ,
also they have recently bought brand new vans , Why would you do that if you are running the company down ready to sell ?
They also have 25% owner drivers that can deliver the parcels cheaper , and last time it was mentioned Parcel force was not losing money it was breaking even , How much money are the inefficient DPR routes losing ? .

The calculator broke when they were trying to add up DPR losses.

In the Financial Statement it doesn’t list DPR separately but they know. They make veiled references to parcels being more expensive to deliver than letters and increased staffing costs - DPR has added 30+ staff to our office alone.

Exactly , it makes sense to give Parcelforce anything over shoe box size and get rid of these loss making DPR routes .

DPR never made sense. I would love to know who’s idea it was.

[ted_e_bear]

DPR never made sense. I would love to know who’s idea it was.
[/quote]

Sorry it's off topic but just remembered one of their previous 'good' ideas that didn't see the light of day, it was to merge two delivery offices and the frames would be fitted with revolving labels like James Bond's number plates so once one office had been and gone out the other office could prep their duties