Vr 50 +

[scotchy1962]

As usual the first hint of vr's being on the table the forum goes mad with, what, where, when and how it will all happen.
Firstly at the moment we have no idea if this will come to pass and secondly look what happened last time this reared it's ugly head.
Everyone gets excited and nobody gets what they really want.
Let's just wait and see if it even happens...... then everyone can get excited including me!

[Perseus]

As usual the first hint of vr's being on the table the forum goes mad with, what, where, when and how it will all happen.
Firstly at the moment we have no idea if this will come to pass and secondly look what happened last time this reared it's ugly head.
Everyone gets excited and nobody gets what they really want.
Let's just wait and see if it even happens...... then everyone can get excited including me!

Last time round, we had people being extremely vocal about it, saying they would leave for 'x' amount. They actually got chosen, looked at the amount , which was 2.5 times what they previously said they would leave for and declined it.
Very few people actually accept VR. The days where it would be enough to see you alright for 3-4 years until retirement with a part time job are long gone.

[Londonsburning]

As usual the first hint of vr's being on the table the forum goes mad with, what, where, when and how it will all happen.
Firstly at the moment we have no idea if this will come to pass and secondly look what happened last time this reared it's ugly head.
Everyone gets excited and nobody gets what they really want.
Let's just wait and see if it even happens...... then everyone can get excited including me!

The last time VR reared it's ugly head, it was eventually deemed to be a so called mock trial after it was massively oversubscribed by a significant portion of senior posties countrywide Scotchy. Never going to happen again and that is a fact, unfortunately.

[Londonsburning]

In fact the mock VR exercise those few years ago, will be part of the reason big Dan has decided to buy Royal Mail. Data collection is the winner. Making 0.001% on a few billion is still cashing in your annual wage a few times every day

[GRS]

Thing is they need a 25% reduction in staff for ODM to work (3 bodies doing the work that 4 currently do). The only way ODM saves money is on labour costs. Is the business 25% understaffed at their moment? Maybe in some offices but certainly not the majority.

Thing is with a preference exercise is everyone says “oh yeah I’ll take VR no matter how much they offer”. Then when reality hits & the good lady indoors has put her foot down the reverse beeping is deafening.

[Martin Walsh]

To have any redundancies the employer has to serve a section 188 informing the union of the potential job losses and how they intend to resolve them without having any compulsory redundancies.

Until Ofcom approve the USO reform the section 188 will not be served.

It is illegal for any employer to give a voluntary redundancy and then recruit filling the same job.

So if in one unit you had a surplus of say 10 individuals and there was the possibility of 10 voluntary redundancy packages then Royal Mail have a legal obligation that in releasing those 10 VRs that they can run the operation within recruiting anyone else which is why in releasing the 10 you do not have sufficient drivers as the ODM requires drivers and reduces the selection in any repick of non drivers to just CDV pairing.

[Londonsburning]

It is illegal for any employer to give a voluntary redundancy and then recruit filling the same job.

So why are the CWU not tackling all the other illegal shite RM have been getting away with over the years. Ah yes, because you would be outside your cushy cozy little comfort zone as CWU representatives.

The obvious massive elephant in the room being prioritising Tracked over and above letters.

[claretandblue]

It is illegal for any employer to give a voluntary redundancy and then recruit filling the same job.

So why are the CWU not tackling all the other illegal shite RM have been getting away with over the years. Ah yes, because you would be outside your cushy cozy little comfort zone as CWU representatives.

The obvious massive elephant in the room being prioritising Tracked over and above letters.

And using PDA data as a stick to beat you with.

[Barnacle]

To have any redundancies the employer has to serve a section 188 informing the union of the potential job losses and how they intend to resolve them without having any compulsory redundancies.

Until Ofcom approve the USO reform the section 188 will not be served.

It is illegal for any employer to give a voluntary redundancy and then recruit filling the same job.

So if in one unit you had a surplus of say 10 individuals and there was the possibility of 10 voluntary redundancy packages then Royal Mail have a legal obligation that in releasing those 10 VRs that they can run the operation within recruiting anyone else which is why in releasing the 10 you do not have sufficient drivers as the ODM requires drivers and reduces the selection in any repick of non drivers to just CDV pairing.

What if the employer removes people via VR and then moves staff from another section to do their old job? This is what happened in my office. I was brushed off by the DOM but that’s what happened.

[Acca Dacca]

To have any redundancies the employer has to serve a section 188 informing the union of the potential job losses and how they intend to resolve them without having any compulsory redundancies.

Until Ofcom approve the USO reform the section 188 will not be served.

It is illegal for any employer to give a voluntary redundancy and then recruit filling the same job.

So if in one unit you had a surplus of say 10 individuals and there was the possibility of 10 voluntary redundancy packages then Royal Mail have a legal obligation that in releasing those 10 VRs that they can run the operation within recruiting anyone else which is why in releasing the 10 you do not have sufficient drivers as the ODM requires drivers and reduces the selection in any repick of non drivers to just CDV pairing.

Does this include replacing a FT legacy contract non driver with a part time new contract driver? Is that counted as the same job?

What happens if they put duties back into the unit in the future if the redundancies are based on the number of walks being taken out? They would likely need to recruit.

What about legacy FTers being given VR and then new contract PTers being made up to the FT? Thats theoretically the legacy FT being replaced by a new contract FT.

[scotchy1962]

Thing is they need a 25% reduction in staff for ODM to work (3 bodies doing the work that 4 currently do). The only way ODM saves money is on labour costs. Is the business 25% understaffed at their moment? Maybe in some offices but certainly not the majority.

Thing is with a preference exercise is everyone says “oh yeah I’ll take VR no matter how much they offer”. Then when reality hits & the good lady indoors has put her foot down the reverse beeping is deafening.

All of this is correct but i fancy there won't be as many VRs as people expect, most of the delivery offices cannot clear everyday without people going over. Therefore the duties must be shrunk for two people to clear two duties with double mail and parcels without going over.
All this should be the main driving point for our union, add more duties and take the pressure off your members going forward.
Speaking for myself i think a manageable workload and less stressful work environment should be what we are looking for out of this USO change. In fact we should be demanding it..... but those days are over.
Ahhhh i can but dream.

[yellowbelly]

To have any redundancies the employer has to serve a section 188 informing the union of the potential job losses and how they intend to resolve them without having any compulsory redundancies.

Until Ofcom approve the USO reform the section 188 will not be served.

It is illegal for any employer to give a voluntary redundancy and then recruit filling the same job.

So if in one unit you had a surplus of say 10 individuals and there was the possibility of 10 voluntary redundancy packages then Royal Mail have a legal obligation that in releasing those 10 VRs that they can run the operation within recruiting anyone else which is why in releasing the 10 you do not have sufficient drivers as the ODM requires drivers and reduces the selection in any repick of non drivers to just CDV pairing.

They'd just adjust the 'same job' with a little bit extra work, slightly different hours and hey presto it's a different job!

[scotchy1962]

To have any redundancies the employer has to serve a section 188 informing the union of the potential job losses and how they intend to resolve them without having any compulsory redundancies.

Until Ofcom approve the USO reform the section 188 will not be served.

It is illegal for any employer to give a voluntary redundancy and then recruit filling the same job.

So if in one unit you had a surplus of say 10 individuals and there was the possibility of 10 voluntary redundancy packages then Royal Mail have a legal obligation that in releasing those 10 VRs that they can run the operation within recruiting anyone else which is why in releasing the 10 you do not have sufficient drivers as the ODM requires drivers and reduces the selection in any repick of non drivers to just CDV pairing.

That all sounds suitably baffling, always remember Martin we are but humble, downtrodden and exhausted Posties, laymans terms when citing union acronyms and reform of USO terms.
Not all of us understand what you are saying so put your point across simplified please.
And please at some stage address the duty sizes, and don't agree to longer days as the workforce are tired enough doing what we do now.

[GRS]

Thing is they need a 25% reduction in staff for ODM to work (3 bodies doing the work that 4 currently do). The only way ODM saves money is on labour costs. Is the business 25% understaffed at their moment? Maybe in some offices but certainly not the majority.

Thing is with a preference exercise is everyone says “oh yeah I’ll take VR no matter how much they offer”. Then when reality hits & the good lady indoors has put her foot down the reverse beeping is deafening.

All of this is correct but i fancy there won't be as many VRs as people expect, most of the delivery offices cannot clear everyday without people going over. Therefore the duties must be shrunk for two people to clear two duties with double mail and parcels without going over.
All this should be the main driving point for our union, add more duties and take the pressure off your members going forward.
Speaking for myself i think a manageable workload and less stressful work environment should be what we are looking for out of this USO change. In fact we should be demanding it..... but those days are over.
Ahhhh i can but dream.

That last paragraph is so right!
We are human beings for Christ sake but RM seem to think we’re machine who can just walk harder,longer & faster. The reason being as I’ve alluded to on other threads - the spreadsheet & data say one thing but real life says another.

[TopperGas]

To have any redundancies the employer has to serve a section 188 informing the union of the potential job losses and how they intend to resolve them without having any compulsory redundancies.

Until Ofcom approve the USO reform the section 188 will not be served.

It is illegal for any employer to give a voluntary redundancy and then recruit filling the same job.

So if in one unit you had a surplus of say 10 individuals and there was the possibility of 10 voluntary redundancy packages then Royal Mail have a legal obligation that in releasing those 10 VRs that they can run the operation within recruiting anyone else which is why in releasing the 10 you do not have sufficient drivers as the ODM requires drivers and reduces the selection in any repick of non drivers to just CDV pairing.

You have to sense the company will get enough VR's not to have to worry about CR's, if they do move to CR's then they could just make non drivers redundant and elevating the issues that the ODM requires drivers.