“Newbies” v “Legacy”

[lincolnshirepostie]

Ah but Lou how does working more hours mean you work "harder" than anyone else, it just means you work for longer than someone on less hours not that you physically work harder.
I have no doubt they are given a hard time or "shat" on as you like to call it, but aren't we all at times, until you decide to stand your ground and put up some resistance that's the way it has always been in any job.
Job equalisation should be a priority on anybodys list, blaming someone for something they have no control over shouldn't.

Many newer entrants are on lower pay and longer hours but that is not proof of greater effort - it's proof of worse conditions!! RM and the CWU have allowed a two-tier system to persist that has created that inequality in the first place and instead of slipping into moral comparisons over who works hardest, it is a fact that newer staff are expected to do the same work for less. It's an injustice but certainly not one that has been created by "legacy" posties and we should really be pointing the blame upwards for that, not sideways. It is RM's corporate strategy that drives understaffing, bad training and uneven conditions which has pitted staff against each other. Rather than attacking the symptoms we should be addressing the cause.

I think you're spot on here. I'm surprised at the strange divide between fresh meat and legacy postpeople and it stinks of the business encouraging pitting groups against each other as a distraction. Happens all the time in politics!

[TooManyLoops]

Agree with lots you say, mate. But we definitely do work harder!

Do you believe this crap you type?

Absolutely. Definitely. I wouldn’t say it otherwise.

What's the weather like on your planet

[Woody84]

Ah but Lou how does working more hours mean you work "harder" than anyone else, it just means you work for longer than someone on less hours not that you physically work harder.
I have no doubt they are given a hard time or "shat" on as you like to call it, but aren't we all at times, until you decide to stand your ground and put up some resistance that's the way it has always been in any job.
Job equalisation should be a priority on anybodys list, blaming someone for something they have no control over shouldn't.

Many newer entrants are on lower pay and longer hours but that is not proof of greater effort - it's proof of worse conditions!! RM and the CWU have allowed a two-tier system to persist that has created that inequality in the first place and instead of slipping into moral comparisons over who works hardest, it is a fact that newer staff are expected to do the same work for less. It's an injustice but certainly not one that has been created by "legacy" posties and we should really be pointing the blame upwards for that, not sideways. It is RM's corporate strategy that drives understaffing, bad training and uneven conditions which has pitted staff against each other. Rather than attacking the symptoms we should be addressing the cause.

I think you're spot on here. I'm surprised at the strange divide between fresh meat and legacy postpeople and it stinks of the business encouraging pitting groups against each other as a distraction. Happens all the time in politics!

Exactly this and imo the union are happy to go along with it too.

[LouBarlow]

Ah but Lou how does working more hours mean you work "harder" than anyone else, it just means you work for longer than someone on less hours not that you physically work harder.
I have no doubt they are given a hard time or "shat" on as you like to call it, but aren't we all at times, until you decide to stand your ground and put up some resistance that's the way it has always been in any job.
Job equalisation should be a priority on anybodys list, blaming someone for something they have no control over shouldn't.

Many newer entrants are on lower pay and longer hours but that is not proof of greater effort - it's proof of worse conditions!! RM and the CWU have allowed a two-tier system to persist that has created that inequality in the first place and instead of slipping into moral comparisons over who works hardest, it is a fact that newer staff are expected to do the same work for less. It's an injustice but certainly not one that has been created by "legacy" posties and we should really be pointing the blame upwards for that, not sideways. It is RM's corporate strategy that drives understaffing, bad training and uneven conditions which has pitted staff against each other. Rather than attacking the symptoms we should be addressing the cause.

I think you're spot on here. I'm surprised at the strange divide between fresh meat and legacy postpeople and it stinks of the business encouraging pitting groups against each other as a distraction. Happens all the time in politics!

Exactly this and imo the union are happy to go along with it too.

Absolute nonsense. Why would the union be happy to accelerate their own demise? It is within their own interests to get new starters on side by working to equalise contracts and make them feel it is worth their while signing up.

[Cofipostie1]

Toxic business always has been always will be

[postslippete]

Toxic business always has been always will be

Unfortunately, I agree. There are a lot of staff who like to blame others for the state that the company is now, whether thats the legacy staff, newbies or management. In our office there is a lot of distrust toward our manager who often says one thing in workplace huddles and then does another. For example, we have been promised for months that duties would be put in, but they keep and keep backtracking, which is really frustrating. Although we are short-staffed I really don't think employing more staff on worse pay and conditions is the answer. That only maintains the divide between legacy and new staff and fuels resentment.

It's the structure of the business itself i.e. cost cutting, two tier contracts and the focus on efficiency over wellbeing that is toxic, rather than the people themselves. Many posties and even managers are doing their best within a system that sets them up to fail. The CWU has become too reactive to all of this, but in fairness, they are consistently undermined by RM, which seems to have no intentions of fixing the two-tier issue.

[scotchy1962]

"Newbies" v "Legacy" the biggest problem facing the ordinary postman at the moment, the division it causes in the workforce and stops you all from concentrating on what really matters, USO and equalisation of pay. They are the two biggest problems for you all.
I know some people think that new starts all know what they are signing up to, i believe i said it myself at some stage, but they aren't aware of what the old posties get when joining in the first place.
Equalisation is probably the one needing immediate fixing, a workforce on the same page can then tackle the USO and at least have a fighting chance, if you can get the union to actually tackle the company properly.
It's really become a sad state of affairs when all that seems to be happening is infighting with each other.

[TooManyLoops]

I'm still waiting to hear how 'newbies' work harder than 'legacy'

I'm a 'legacy' postie, and the cover guy for my duty is a 'newbie'; they usually clear the duty, may leave the odd loop here and there, I'm fine with that

This cover guy also covers 4 other duties, all held by legacy posties

So, how does this 'newbie' work harder

[Smoothbackground]

I'm still waiting to hear how 'newbies' work harder than 'legacy'

I'm a 'legacy' postie, and the cover guy for my duty is a 'newbie'; they usually clear the duty, may leave the odd loop here and there, I'm fine with that

This cover guy also covers 4 other duties, all held by legacy posties

So, how does this 'newbie' work harder

A a 40-hr newbie covering your duty in my office would mean that, having done your walk, chances are they will be coming back to do a maybe four-hour parcel route in the afternoon. If not, they will be put on their own on a paired duty with several days’ worth of mail, ie, a stinker, and told to clear one side of it completely, leaving the mail for the other in, and to do all the tracked, first class, specials, boxes, etc for both sides.

[Kenfandango]

In my experience the newbies work hard until they get paired with a "legacy" postie who has been phoning it in for years: You know them, the one who refuses to do anything beyond fill their hours then saunter off, spending mornings arguing about the workload with a manager while we all crack on and do the job, who is never to be found when sorting or IPS needs doing, and leaves increasing amounts in their frame over the week for the RDC to cover (then get upset if the RDC doesn't complete.) You've all wondered how much work they'd actually finish if they actually did it instead of moaning about how they can't...

I imagine every DO has at least one (we have about 10 but we're a big DO.) They're also the ones who can't wait to tell the new starts "that's your job we all started at the bottom" whilst telling them how much they earn and how much time off sick they've had. One of ours is quite proud that he's made 3 people quit by treating them badly in their first few months.

I've seen hard working 19 year olds spend a week with one of these guys (and girls) before becoming complacent and asking "well why aren't they being held to the same standards? I'll just cut off or leave all my tracked like they do, as they earn more than me."

To clarify that's only a tiny amount of legacy staff, not those with health issues or who've worked themselves into the ground- it's the ones who everyone around them has been annoyed at for decades

[TooManyLoops]

I'm still waiting to hear how 'newbies' work harder than 'legacy'

I'm a 'legacy' postie, and the cover guy for my duty is a 'newbie'; they usually clear the duty, may leave the odd loop here and there, I'm fine with that

This cover guy also covers 4 other duties, all held by legacy posties

So, how does this 'newbie' work harder

A a 40-hr newbie covering your duty in my office would mean that, having done your walk, chances are they will be coming back to do a maybe four-hour parcel route in the afternoon. If not, they will be put on their own on a paired duty with several days’ worth of mail, ie, a stinker, and told to clear one side of it completely, leaving the mail for the other in, and to do all the tracked, first class, specials, boxes, etc for both sides.

This guy is the cover, it's their duty. So, again, how are they working harder

Also, what sort of deluded world are you living in if you don't think legacy posties are having a hard time with mail stuffed into fittings, having to deal with first-class, specials, and boxes, etc.?

[TooManyLoops]

In my experience the newbies work hard until they get paired with a "legacy" postie who has been phoning it in for years: You know them, the one who refuses to do anything beyond fill their hours then saunter off, spending mornings arguing about the workload with a manager while we all crack on and do the job, who is never to be found when sorting or IPS needs doing, and leaves increasing amounts in their frame over the week for the RDC to cover (then get upset if the RDC doesn't complete.) You've all wondered how much work they'd actually finish if they actually did it instead of moaning about how they can't...

I imagine every DO has at least one (we have about 10 but we're a big DO.) They're also the ones who can't wait to tell the new starts "that's your job we all started at the bottom" whilst telling them how much they earn and how much time off sick they've had. One of ours is quite proud that he's made 3 people quit by treating them badly in their first few months.

I've seen hard working 19 year olds spend a week with one of these guys (and girls) before becoming complacent and asking "well why aren't they being held to the same standards? I'll just cut off or leave all my tracked like they do, as they earn more than me."

To clarify that's only a tiny amount of legacy staff, not those with health issues or who've worked themselves into the ground- it's the ones who everyone around them has been annoyed at for decades

And you have a small minority of 'newbies' who are lazy too. Not doing D2Ds, for example

[Perseus]

In my experience the newbies work hard until they get paired with a "legacy" postie who has been phoning it in for years: You know them, the one who refuses to do anything beyond fill their hours then saunter off, spending mornings arguing about the workload with a manager while we all crack on and do the job, who is never to be found when sorting or IPS needs doing, and leaves increasing amounts in their frame over the week for the RDC to cover (then get upset if the RDC doesn't complete.) You've all wondered how much work they'd actually finish if they actually did it instead of moaning about how they can't...

I imagine every DO has at least one (we have about 10 but we're a big DO.) They're also the ones who can't wait to tell the new starts "that's your job we all started at the bottom" whilst telling them how much they earn and how much time off sick they've had. One of ours is quite proud that he's made 3 people quit by treating them badly in their first few months.

I've seen hard working 19 year olds spend a week with one of these guys (and girls) before becoming complacent and asking "well why aren't they being held to the same standards? I'll just cut off or leave all my tracked like they do, as they earn more than me."

To clarify that's only a tiny amount of legacy staff, not those with health issues or who've worked themselves into the ground- it's the ones who everyone around them has been annoyed at for decades

You'll probably get some on here saying you are talking rubbish, you are full of it etc etc, but what you post is very relatable. The only bit I'd question is that every office has at least one person like that, it's more likely that many, many offices don't have any staff like that, but with over 1000 units there are bound to be quite a few.

[Woody84]

Ah but Lou how does working more hours mean you work "harder" than anyone else, it just means you work for longer than someone on less hours not that you physically work harder.
I have no doubt they are given a hard time or "shat" on as you like to call it, but aren't we all at times, until you decide to stand your ground and put up some resistance that's the way it has always been in any job.
Job equalisation should be a priority on anybodys list, blaming someone for something they have no control over shouldn't.

Many newer entrants are on lower pay and longer hours but that is not proof of greater effort - it's proof of worse conditions!! RM and the CWU have allowed a two-tier system to persist that has created that inequality in the first place and instead of slipping into moral comparisons over who works hardest, it is a fact that newer staff are expected to do the same work for less. It's an injustice but certainly not one that has been created by "legacy" posties and we should really be pointing the blame upwards for that, not sideways. It is RM's corporate strategy that drives understaffing, bad training and uneven conditions which has pitted staff against each other. Rather than attacking the symptoms we should be addressing the cause.

I think you're spot on here. I'm surprised at the strange divide between fresh meat and legacy postpeople and it stinks of the business encouraging pitting groups against each other as a distraction. Happens all the time in politics!

Exactly this and imo the union are happy to go along with it too.

Absolute nonsense. Why would the union be happy to accelerate their own demise? It is within their own interests to get new starters on side by working to equalise contracts and make them feel it is worth their while signing up.

They know they’re finished. Just enjoying the last of the gravy train while it’s still on the tracks.

[jagger]

Hmmm Smooth, how exactly do you figure this one out, what parameters do you use to measure how much harder the newbies work or you in particular work than legacy posties. By the way i hate the whole"Legacy" thing as you are all posties.
Your need to create a divide because you have a bugbear with posties is a concern, i understand why you believe it, but seeing as how most of your gripes are things outside the control of normal posties, i don't know what you want them to do.
In delivery you all do essentially the same job, how you go about it, what training you get etc etc all varies office to office and what you experience has always gone on from long before your time. So you aren't really treated different it just feels like it to you.
I know you will continue on your quest to bash posties/union every chance you get and under the guise of being a newbie use it to push your agenda, says more about you than it does about the rest of them.

I use the “outdoor span” as the primary parameter to measure how much harder the newbies work. Whereas lots of staff, both legacy-contract and new-entrant colleagues, have the luxury of spending a large proportion of their shift time doing indoor, less arduous and less physical work, then doing a four-hour or so at most delivery, most 40-hr new entrants are doing seven hours or more of outdoor work each day.

How can someone on an eight hour shift be doing seven or more hours outdoors?