Later start times

[Philbag70]

If you are exempted from having to come in later (I probably will be) will anything change from what I usually do? Work wise?

How will it work?

An area rep floated the idea that exempted people would start later like the rest but finish earlier(would be on singleton duties) and the hours they finish earlier would be banked and they would be required to make the time up by working a Sunday shift! That went down like a lead balloon but he said there will be give and take required if any exemption is granted

How very Royal Mail.
For the rest of the universe, Exemption means " to free from obligation"
For Royal Mail though, it means " we force you into doing it elsewhere "
It would appear our glorious leaders are so astonishingly arrogant, they can now redefine words.

Maybe I'm in the minority hear but I don't think that is unreasonable.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. I suspect many will agree with you and it's actually me thats in the minority. However, I find it unacceptable to change your employees contracted hours when you feel like it, so that it compromises their life outside of work. For example, if you need to collect children after school. I find it completely unreasonable that many parents will now have to fund childcare in times of financial hardship. Many parents work for RM because the contracted hours fit their lifestyle
How dare RM think they can turn lives upside down because it suits their own selfish needs. They're our employer not our owner.
Obviously, if the changes are only a few minutes, then that's not unreasonable but if the suspected 90 minutes plus is pushed through, then to me that's unreasonable.

[ted_e_bear]

Surely in order to mitigate start times all early overtime will disappear?
Surely the union is ensuring there are uplifts in part time contracts before discussing overtime arrangements?

I agree most preshift overtime will surely go and maybe it will be the end of unpaid early starters

Good points, has anyone any idea what their new arrival times are planned for in relation to the new starting time ?

I'm hoping it's pretty close so the unpaid early starters won't be able to get much done.

That’s my hope too. I might start coming in early just to take a seat and watch these maniacs hopping around because their mech mail isn’t there 45 mins before their start time. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility one of them will head off in a van to hunt the mail down from the mail centre. Could be a hilarious watch.

It's quite funny now we're on the "summer" later starts as the 2nd wave arrives just before start time so they're all there frantically bringing the Yorks in to grab the 2nd lot of sequenced in an attempt to get it in before they're actually due to start working

Wave 2 mech is walksort only. tbqf with a good chunk of the 2C being extracted when running the inward, a lot of the time the wave 2 batches are so small it's not really worth the effort of even walk sorting them. There can be less than 100 items split over anything up to a dozen walks

Yeah I know I just referred to it as "sequenced" the point I was making was delivery is infested with people who absolutely cannot stop trying to make valuable seconds wherever possible.

[Tman]

. However, I find it unacceptable to change your employees contracted hours when you feel like it, so that it compromises their life outside of work.
How dare RM think they can turn lives upside down because it suits their own selfish needs. They're our employer not our owner.

You're on a hiding to nothing then. It's been proved many times that employers have the right to change employees' attendance times as required. As long as adequate notice of the changes is given employers can make changes as they see fit (within reason, obviously)

[calsae]

sounds more like you bend over and do overtime every day....I mean, I understand it - at our place if you are slow, but you complete in overtime, you are left in peace. If you are a decent speed, but choose to finish on time, bringing stuff back....you are told you are slow and they try to push you to do the impossible and complete your job within time. It's ridiculous....

but no chance I will let them push me into doing overtime daily....I am knackered as it is.
[/quote]

I get were it might sound like that, but I don’t and haven’t done OT in many years not even at Christmas. I’ve done this job for nearly 30yrs and don’t let any screw bully me. I have been brought into the office because of my daily handbacks. When performance has been discussed I politely ask could I have the wpc come out on my duty to see were I’m failing especially when my hand held device ( they hate when you tell them you can’t remember it’s called pda ) shows I’m working.
Still waiting on them agreeing to wpc
It can be tedious doing the job to the letter of the law but you definitely don’t go home knackered and you definitely walk less
Start on time, follow instruction from the com, don’t look at mail while walking, try neighbours for items that don’t fit through letter box. Don’t doorstep anything, don’t sign for anything…Don’t cut any corners doing the job and go home at finish time. Everything else is not my responsibility

[Philbag70]

. However, I find it unacceptable to change your employees contracted hours when you feel like it, so that it compromises their life outside of work.
How dare RM think they can turn lives upside down because it suits their own selfish needs. They're our employer not our owner.

You're on a hiding to nothing then. It's been proved many times that employers have the right to change employees' attendance times as required. As long as adequate notice of the changes is given employers can make changes as they see fit (within reason, obviously)

To my mind, the key word is " reasonable "
Forcing employees into potential difficulties outside of contracted hours ( ie parents of young children or carers of relatives ) is not reasonable to my mind.
What's to stop RM saying that we all need to work from 11am until 6,7,8pm because the business needs it?
Maybe it's just me and my lack of trust in RM....
See what tomorrows announcement brings....

[Basildon Bond]

. However, I find it unacceptable to change your employees contracted hours when you feel like it, so that it compromises their life outside of work.
How dare RM think they can turn lives upside down because it suits their own selfish needs. They're our employer not our owner.

You're on a hiding to nothing then. It's been proved many times that employers have the right to change employees' attendance times as required. As long as adequate notice of the changes is given employers can make changes as they see fit (within reason, obviously)

Example:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/ch ... conditions

If your employer wants to change your contract

If your employer wants to make changes to your contract, they should consult you or your representative (for example, a trade union official), explain the reasons and listen to alternative ideas.

Changes can be agreed directly between you and your employer, or through what is known as a 'collective agreement' between your employer and a trade union. This might be allowed by your contract even if you're not a union member.

If you don't agree with changes to your employment conditions

If you don't agree, your employer is not allowed to just bring in a change. However, they can terminate your contract (by giving notice) and offer you a new one including the revised terms - effectively sacking you and taking you back on.

Your employer would be expected to follow a statutory minimum dismissal procedure. They may have to follow a collective redundancy consultation process if they plan to do this to a group of employees.

Who wants a brand new contract with lots of changes? Don't all rush forwards at once!

[TopperGas]

If you are exempted from having to come in later (I probably will be) will anything change from what I usually do? Work wise?

How will it work?

An area rep floated the idea that exempted people would start later like the rest but finish earlier(would be on singleton duties) and the hours they finish earlier would be banked and they would be required to make the time up by working a Sunday shift! That went down like a lead balloon but he said there will be give and take required if any exemption is granted

Given they clearly can''t start earlier as the post won't have arrived I can the options being given are they either make their time up on a Sunday or they'll just have to take a reduction in their hours. I can't really see the business saying from June they can just work 1hr/1.5hrs a day for the same pay.

[TopperGas]

Has anybody heard any rumours what's happening with PM Collections/SA as we can't start them at the present start time if we're still out on delivery??

[Clappedoutpostie]

Has anybody heard any rumours what's happening with PM Collections/SA as we can't start them at the present start time if we're still out on delivery??

Knowing RM it’s probably not something they have thought of yet.

[stevejm]

Since this agreement was voted in ( I left Union before vote due to the phleb holding up yes vote at parliamentary committee) I thought my last few years in RM will be 9-5. Anything less than those times , I will see as a win. I have fought every fight with the CWU & lost something everytime. I take what RM throws at me now, I don’t argue back, I just accept it and do even less work. I act stupid to new ways of working and the screws now just roll their eyes and ask others to do what I don’t understand. That is the stark reality at RM! Be s**t at your job and they leave you alone. Looking forward to being totally inept when it comes to later in the year and it’s dark at 3.30pm, phoning the com to see what I’m meant to do as I can’t see the driveways

[guardianangel]

Since this agreement was voted in ( I left Union before vote due to the phleb holding up yes vote at parliamentary committee) I thought my last few years in RM will be 9-5. Anything less than those times , I will see as a win. I have fought every fight with the CWU & lost something everytime. I take what RM throws at me now, I don’t argue back, I just accept it and do even less work. I act stupid to new ways of working and the screws now just roll their eyes and ask others to do what I don’t understand. That is the stark reality at RM! Be s**t at your job and they leave you alone. Looking forward to being totally inept when it comes to later in the year and it’s dark at 3.30pm, phoning the com to see what I’m meant to do as I can’t see the driveways

Me to a tee,the lino has even said im s**t at my job and i just agree with him iknow it drives him mad

[thefox]

[Philbag70]

. However, I find it unacceptable to change your employees contracted hours when you feel like it, so that it compromises their life outside of work.
How dare RM think they can turn lives upside down because it suits their own selfish needs. They're our employer not our owner.

You're on a hiding to nothing then. It's been proved many times that employers have the right to change employees' attendance times as required. As long as adequate notice of the changes is given employers can make changes as they see fit (within reason, obviously)

Example:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/ch ... conditions

If your employer wants to change your contract

If your employer wants to make changes to your contract, they should consult you or your representative (for example, a trade union official), explain the reasons and listen to alternative ideas.

Changes can be agreed directly between you and your employer, or through what is known as a 'collective agreement' between your employer and a trade union. This might be allowed by your contract even if you're not a union member.

If you don't agree with changes to your employment conditions

If you don't agree, your employer is not allowed to just bring in a change. However, they can terminate your contract (by giving notice) and offer you a new one including the revised terms - effectively sacking you and taking you back on.

Your employer would be expected to follow a statutory minimum dismissal procedure. They may have to follow a collective redundancy consultation process if they plan to do this to a group of employees.

Who wants a brand new contract with lots of changes? Don't all rush forwards at once!

Thankyou for posting that. I wasn't aware my employer can effectively change my contract to whatever they want just by giving notice. I don't fancy fire/rehire.

[datasaint]

. However, I find it unacceptable to change your employees contracted hours when you feel like it, so that it compromises their life outside of work.
How dare RM think they can turn lives upside down because it suits their own selfish needs. They're our employer not our owner.

You're on a hiding to nothing then. It's been proved many times that employers have the right to change employees' attendance times as required. As long as adequate notice of the changes is given employers can make changes as they see fit (within reason, obviously)

To my mind, the key word is " reasonable "
Forcing employees into potential difficulties outside of contracted hours ( ie parents of young children or carers of relatives ) is not reasonable to my mind.
What's to stop RM saying that we all need to work from 11am until 6,7,8pm because the business needs it?
Maybe it's just me and my lack of trust in RM....
See what tomorrows announcement brings....

If RM want everybody to work 9 to 5 on delivery that's considered reasonable because that's what a lot of other companies already do. The fact that it has a disruptive effect on individuals isn't the point in question.

Unreasonable would be putting people on nights for example.

[dodgyinlaws]

Dugdale stainthorpe and davies