Exhaust Fumes from Vans

Seymour Buts · Post by **Seymour Buts** » 23 Dec 2019, 19:04

NewPostieUK wrote:I think it's scandalous that some people leave their vans running for 20 or 30 minutes. Totally unnecessary, hazardous to our health as well as the planet.

I scrape my windows with a scraper. After loading it just takes a minute or two of the engine running and blower on and the windows are fine.

This. It's unrealistic to expect the company to replace 50,000 vehicles, it's not however unrealistic to expect people to just not be stupid.

rockmanrock · Post by **rockmanrock** » 23 Dec 2019, 19:06

Seymour Buts wrote:
ssdd wrote:Shouldn't RM be investing more into electric vehicles anyway. Think of the cost savings in fuel, and with the mileages most of us cover it would be feasible. Also, it would be good PR to be seen to be investing, cutting carbon footprint blah..blah..blah. Can't see much of the proposed 1.8 billion going towards that though.
Electric vehicles cost three times their combustion counter parts; then you've got to install the charging points to go with them; then you've got the issue of longevity, nobody really knows how the batteries (the most expensive part) will last on these things. Hence why in 2018 there were 172,000 zero emissions vehicles registered in the UK out of a total of somewhere in the region of 30 million vehicles. The figures have probably got better in the last year, but I saw a report the other day saying it was either 30 or 40 to 1 SUVs being sold for every electric car so I doubt it's much better!

Where did you get the 3x times cost figures from ? Longevity of batteries is not a issue - many 20 year old Prius cars still going. Seems odd to defend a out of date , harmful fuel .

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 23 Dec 2019, 19:37

rockmanrock wrote:
Seymour Buts wrote:
ssdd wrote:Shouldn't RM be investing more into electric vehicles anyway. Think of the cost savings in fuel, and with the mileages most of us cover it would be feasible. Also, it would be good PR to be seen to be investing, cutting carbon footprint blah..blah..blah. Can't see much of the proposed 1.8 billion going towards that though.
Electric vehicles cost three times their combustion counter parts; then you've got to install the charging points to go with them; then you've got the issue of longevity, nobody really knows how the batteries (the most expensive part) will last on these things. Hence why in 2018 there were 172,000 zero emissions vehicles registered in the UK out of a total of somewhere in the region of 30 million vehicles. The figures have probably got better in the last year, but I saw a report the other day saying it was either 30 or 40 to 1 SUVs being sold for every electric car so I doubt it's much better!
Where did you get the 3x times cost figures from ? Longevity of batteries is not a issue - many 20 year old Prius cars still going. Seems odd to defend a out of date , harmful fuel .

What about the extraction of the rare earth metals needed for the batteries? What about the source of the power being used to charge them?

Seymour Buts · Post by **Seymour Buts** » 23 Dec 2019, 22:03

rockmanrock wrote:
Seymour Buts wrote:
ssdd wrote:Shouldn't RM be investing more into electric vehicles anyway. Think of the cost savings in fuel, and with the mileages most of us cover it would be feasible. Also, it would be good PR to be seen to be investing, cutting carbon footprint blah..blah..blah. Can't see much of the proposed 1.8 billion going towards that though.
Electric vehicles cost three times their combustion counter parts; then you've got to install the charging points to go with them; then you've got the issue of longevity, nobody really knows how the batteries (the most expensive part) will last on these things. Hence why in 2018 there were 172,000 zero emissions vehicles registered in the UK out of a total of somewhere in the region of 30 million vehicles. The figures have probably got better in the last year, but I saw a report the other day saying it was either 30 or 40 to 1 SUVs being sold for every electric car so I doubt it's much better!
Where did you get the 3x times cost figures from ? Longevity of batteries is not a issue - many 20 year old Prius cars still going. Seems odd to defend a out of date , harmful fuel .

You're right, I'm going back a number of years for three times the price; they are still 81% more expensive though. If they weren't they'd be selling on a par with combustion vehicles.

A prius is a hybrid; it is completely reliant on a conbustion engine to recharge the batteries which makes it a con. We're talking fully electric.

It's not a case of 'defending' anything, it's being realistic. 50,000 vehicles, replacing everyone with vehicles much more expensive; needing to install charge points for all of these vehicles. The cost would be eyewatering.

rockmanrock · Post by **rockmanrock** » 24 Dec 2019, 20:11

SpacePhoenix wrote:
rockmanrock wrote:
Seymour Buts wrote:
ssdd wrote:Shouldn't RM be investing more into electric vehicles anyway. Think of the cost savings in fuel, and with the mileages most of us cover it would be feasible. Also, it would be good PR to be seen to be investing, cutting carbon footprint blah..blah..blah. Can't see much of the proposed 1.8 billion going towards that though.
Electric vehicles cost three times their combustion counter parts; then you've got to install the charging points to go with them; then you've got the issue of longevity, nobody really knows how the batteries (the most expensive part) will last on these things. Hence why in 2018 there were 172,000 zero emissions vehicles registered in the UK out of a total of somewhere in the region of 30 million vehicles. The figures have probably got better in the last year, but I saw a report the other day saying it was either 30 or 40 to 1 SUVs being sold for every electric car so I doubt it's much better!
Where did you get the 3x times cost figures from ? Longevity of batteries is not a issue - many 20 year old Prius cars still going. Seems odd to defend a out of date , harmful fuel .
What about the extraction of the rare earth metals needed for the batteries? What about the source of the power being used to charge them?

Good point about the Materials needed to make modern Lithium Batteries. a quick search found this process would be equal or even less detrimental to the environment than processing diesel and petrol. The source of power is so obvious that I'm shocked you bring it up. Most , if not all electricity providers now have options for renewable sources - ie wind ,solar , tidal.
The future is so obviously clear .

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 24 Dec 2019, 23:07

RM is switching to vans running on unleaded that release far less emissions than standard vans running on unleaded. Vehicles running on electricity are still too expensive to use in large fleets. RM are closely monitoring idling now so any vans with 'trimble' fitted should probably not be left running to clear the windows. A few jugs of water can be used instead or deicer if you have that available.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 25 Dec 2019, 04:34

[quote="Celgar"]A few jugs of water can be used instead/quote] I have always been told that's not recommended. Even using cold water is still a change in temperature and could cause a windscreen to crack. Albeit its less likely than doing so with hot or warm water. Also, the water has to go somewhere and if it remains below freezing you could create a black ice hazard.

This was something that was drummed into me in the forces on a driving course, since then I have never used water, on one occasion I did use a credit card as a scraper.

robbertwhitton · Post by **robbertwhitton** » 26 Dec 2019, 01:58

All good points,but am sure I’ve heard some being dismissed for leaving the van running and unattended in the yard,some boss had gone off on one,and no doubt wanted to make the point.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 26 Dec 2019, 09:30

rockmanrock wrote:The source of power is so obvious that I'm shocked you bring it up. Most , if not all electricity providers now have options for renewable sources - ie wind ,solar , tidal.
The future is so obviously clear .

None of which are any good when there's a sudden surge in electricity demand (just remember back a few weeks when a massive area of the south-east lost power).

Electric is also no good for a DO that covers a wide geographical area or has a lot of rurals where petrol or diesel is really need for maximum operational flexibility. If you're using all electric vans, you can't just quickly send one out to do an extra collection or delivery unless you happen to always have at least one parked up in the yard on standby, fully charged

rockmanrock · Post by **rockmanrock** » 27 Dec 2019, 21:17

SpacePhoenix wrote:
rockmanrock wrote:The source of power is so obvious that I'm shocked you bring it up. Most , if not all electricity providers now have options for renewable sources - ie wind ,solar , tidal.
The future is so obviously clear .
None of which are any good when there's a sudden surge in electricity demand (just remember back a few weeks when a massive area of the south-east lost power).

Electric is also no good for a DO that covers a wide geographical area or has a lot of rurals where petrol or diesel is really need for maximum operational flexibility. If you're using all electric vans, you can't just quickly send one out to do an extra collection or delivery unless you happen to always have at least one parked up in the yard on standby, fully charged

The range on Electric cars/vans now can easily do over 100 miles.I predict not many DO's have rounds that are even close to that range. Embrace the future

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 27 Dec 2019, 21:29

rockmanrock wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:
rockmanrock wrote:The source of power is so obvious that I'm shocked you bring it up. Most , if not all electricity providers now have options for renewable sources - ie wind ,solar , tidal.
The future is so obviously clear .
None of which are any good when there's a sudden surge in electricity demand (just remember back a few weeks when a massive area of the south-east lost power).

Electric is also no good for a DO that covers a wide geographical area or has a lot of rurals where petrol or diesel is really need for maximum operational flexibility. If you're using all electric vans, you can't just quickly send one out to do an extra collection or delivery unless you happen to always have at least one parked up in the yard on standby, fully charged
The range on Electric cars/vans now can easily do over 100 miles.I predict not many DO's have rounds that are even close to that range. Embrace the future

What about all the pollution generated by the extraction of all the rare earth metals needed to create the batteries for electric cars and vans? Will the local electric grids be able to cope - my gut feeling is that at least where I live if too many people had electric cars then the entire local power grid would need an upgrade

twoloops · Post by **twoloops** » 01 Dec 2023, 18:38

Jeppol wrote: ↑
22 Dec 2019, 18:08
Probably best to start engine to demist windows for 5-10 minutes & then turn engine off & load van then, I never load van with engine running.

Make sure you logged out while you defrost your van

Post by **jimmynailsalive** » 01 Dec 2023, 20:52

Send you're agency mate out to defrost the van before you log in for the van check

The whole electric vehicle thing is a con.

As someone mentioned the pollution and health hazards to countries mining it is overlooked.

Germany runs coal power stations in winter to keep up with power generation required to charge vehicles.

Diesel and Petrol is 50% tax to the government so it won't be long befor EV's start getting hit.

And then you have the cost of them even with tax incentives.

They'll be on the heap with betamax video recorders soon.

Clappedoutpostie · Post by **Clappedoutpostie** » 01 Dec 2023, 21:01

twoloops wrote: ↑
01 Dec 2023, 18:38
Make sure you logged out while you defrost your van

Doesn’t work. I tested it yesterday and the idling was on there when I looked this morning.

TheGoodRebel111 · Post by **TheGoodRebel111** » 03 Dec 2023, 17:00

If anything it still bugs me that the vast majority of our vans on delivery duties are diesels. In often urban/suburban stop-start traffic, so they seldom get up to optimum operating temperature. No wonder we have so many vans suffering DPF issues....
Plus petrol powered vans take less time to get up to temperature, so we can take full advantage of the heater at this time of year! What with all the cold and snow and ice etc

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