Revision coming before Christmas

[funkflex55]

Expect 5 hour delivery spans, double slots and unused wings on the frames, house names instead of numbers, piles of door to doors not done, worse mail performance and loads of "Managers" walking around watching you fail.

[SpacePhoenix]

Was bored and looked up why night shifts are known as graveyard shifts (mainly in the US), happend to come across:

https://www.gov.uk/night-working-hours

Limits on working hours for night workers
Additional rules apply to night workers on top of the rules on maximum weekly working hours and rest breaks.

Night workers must not work more than an average of 8 hours in a 24-hour period.

The average is usually calculated over 17 weeks, but it can be over a longer period of up to 52 weeks if the workers and the employer agree - for example, by collective agreement.

Regular overtime is included in the average, but not occasional overtime.

Workers cannot opt out of the limit.

Does that mean that all full time night shift 4 night and 3 night duties in MCs and DOs are effectively illegal?

[ted_e_bear]

Clearly there will be no revision before Christmas pressure. That would be insane, even RM are not that stupid.

More likely January.

If it's going to be before Xmas it'll be no later than early to mid November

Ours just been implemented

Go on please tell us they sorted it properly and made the duties all equal and doable with a view to rolling it out nationwide

[yellowbelly]

Was bored and looked up why night shifts are known as graveyard shifts (mainly in the US), happend to come across:

https://www.gov.uk/night-working-hours

Limits on working hours for night workers
Additional rules apply to night workers on top of the rules on maximum weekly working hours and rest breaks.

Night workers must not work more than an average of 8 hours in a 24-hour period.

The average is usually calculated over 17 weeks, but it can be over a longer period of up to 52 weeks if the workers and the employer agree - for example, by collective agreement.

Regular overtime is included in the average, but not occasional overtime.

Workers cannot opt out of the limit.

Does that mean that all full time night shift 4 night and 3 night duties in MCs and DOs are effectively illegal?

So are the 3 night duties doing 37 hrs over 3 nights? That works out at 12h 20m per night yes? Is the three nights their full working week?
If so, over even a week their AVERAGE work time over 5 days/nights (if we're equating it to a 'normal' posties rota) is less that 8 hours isn't it?
Then you can also deduct the break time within that 12 hours to bring it down even more.

Also over 17 weeks or 52 weeks (where I'm assuming employers can account for holidays/PH) their AVERAGE nightly working hours would be brought down even further won't it?

[yellowbelly]

Clearly there will be no revision before Christmas pressure. That would be insane, even RM are not that stupid.

More likely January.

My suspicion (and it's only a suspicion having grown used to the underhandedness of RM management) is that there's a lot of plans that
are just on hold until the result of the take over bid is known before doing anything.

Anybody heard anything about the new Governments 'robust scrutiny' of the bid?

[SpacePhoenix]

Was bored and looked up why night shifts are known as graveyard shifts (mainly in the US), happend to come across:

https://www.gov.uk/night-working-hours

Limits on working hours for night workers
Additional rules apply to night workers on top of the rules on maximum weekly working hours and rest breaks.

Night workers must not work more than an average of 8 hours in a 24-hour period.

The average is usually calculated over 17 weeks, but it can be over a longer period of up to 52 weeks if the workers and the employer agree - for example, by collective agreement.

Regular overtime is included in the average, but not occasional overtime.

Workers cannot opt out of the limit.

Does that mean that all full time night shift 4 night and 3 night duties in MCs and DOs are effectively illegal?

So are the 3 night duties doing 37 hrs over 3 nights? That works out at 12h 20m per night yes? Is the three nights their full working week?
If so, over even a week their AVERAGE work time over 5 days/nights (if we're equating it to a 'normal' posties rota) is less that 8 hours isn't it?
Then you can also deduct the break time within that 12 hours to bring it down even more.

Also over 17 weeks or 52 weeks (where I'm assuming employers can account for holidays/PH) their AVERAGE nightly working hours would be brought down even further won't it?

Think there's the odd person still on a 3 night duty. A good few now are on 4 nights. Don't think that any breaktimes can be taken out of it, think they class it by shift start and end times. It's possible that it's technically illegal for night shift staff to do any SA or docket

[yellowbelly]

Was bored and looked up why night shifts are known as graveyard shifts (mainly in the US), happend to come across:

https://www.gov.uk/night-working-hours

Limits on working hours for night workers
Additional rules apply to night workers on top of the rules on maximum weekly working hours and rest breaks.

Night workers must not work more than an average of 8 hours in a 24-hour period.

The average is usually calculated over 17 weeks, but it can be over a longer period of up to 52 weeks if the workers and the employer agree - for example, by collective agreement.

Regular overtime is included in the average, but not occasional overtime.

Workers cannot opt out of the limit.

Does that mean that all full time night shift 4 night and 3 night duties in MCs and DOs are effectively illegal?

So are the 3 night duties doing 37 hrs over 3 nights? That works out at 12h 20m per night yes? Is the three nights their full working week?
If so, over even a week their AVERAGE work time over 5 days/nights (if we're equating it to a 'normal' posties rota) is less that 8 hours isn't it?
Then you can also deduct the break time within that 12 hours to bring it down even more.

Also over 17 weeks or 52 weeks (where I'm assuming employers can account for holidays/PH) their AVERAGE nightly working hours would be brought down even further won't it?

Think there's the odd person still on a 3 night duty. A good few now are on 4 nights. Don't think that any breaktimes can be taken out of it, think they class it by shift start and end times. It's possible that it's technically illegal for night shift staff to do any SA or docket

CAB website says (wrt the 48 hr working week) that breaks where you don't do any work or work related tasks should not be included in calculations, so I would have thought same theory applies:

You should only count lunches in your working time if you were actually working, for example having lunch with a client.

You should leave out any lunch breaks where you don't have to do any work.

You should also leave out any lunch breaks that you choose to work through.

Working time doesn't include rest breaks, so you shouldn't count any time you spend on breaks during or between shifts. You can check what rest breaks you should get if you're not sure.

[pieoftheday]

Clearly there will be no revision before Christmas pressure. That would be insane, even RM are not that stupid.

More likely January.

If it's going to be before Xmas it'll be no later than early to mid November

Ours just been implemented

Go on please tell us they sorted it properly and made the duties all equal and doable with a view to rolling it out nationwide

Some duties are just a bit s**t, some are shittier and others stupidly s**t

[ted_e_bear]

Clearly there will be no revision before Christmas pressure. That would be insane, even RM are not that stupid.

More likely January.

If it's going to be before Xmas it'll be no later than early to mid November

Ours just been implemented

Go on please tell us they sorted it properly and made the duties all equal and doable with a view to rolling it out nationwide

Some duties are just a bit s**t, some are shittier and others stupidly s**t

Ah wishful thinking as usual then

[crazyshrew]

Clearly there will be no revision before Christmas pressure. That would be insane, even RM are not that stupid.

More likely January.

If it's going to be before Xmas it'll be no later than early to mid November

Ours just been implemented

Go on please tell us they sorted it properly and made the duties all equal and doable with a view to rolling it out nationwide

So, in my place our 2.0 revision is die to go live in a matter of weeks and we've been given lots of Q&A time with the planner planner in WTLL.

Concerningly, but unsurprisingly most answers have been "Don't know" and "Just doing what I'm told"

Aside from that, all the amazing data that our PDAs are supposed to have produced isn't being used in any way. Just a preprogrammed average of X amount of packets and Y amount of letters per Z amount of delivery points.
Quite frankly a recipe for more inequality between walks than ever before

And, my favourite answer from them was when they explained that the only measure for it's success is getting it in on time.

[ted_e_bear]

Clearly there will be no revision before Christmas pressure. That would be insane, even RM are not that stupid.

More likely January.

If it's going to be before Xmas it'll be no later than early to mid November

Ours just been implemented

Go on please tell us they sorted it properly and made the duties all equal and doable with a view to rolling it out nationwide

So, in my place our 2.0 revision is die to go live in a matter of weeks and we've been given lots of Q&A time with the planner planner in WTLL.

Concerningly, but unsurprisingly most answers have been "Don't know" and "Just doing what I'm told"

Aside from that, all the amazing data that our PDAs are supposed to have produced isn't being used in any way. Just a preprogrammed average of X amount of packets and Y amount of letters per Z amount of delivery points.
Quite frankly a recipe for more inequality between walks than ever before

And, my favourite answer from them was when they explained that the only measure for it's success is getting it in on time.

Wow I'm rendered almost speechless yet again, it's becoming increasingly difficult to accept their level of incompetence, useless f***ers of the highest order

[crazyshrew]

Clearly there will be no revision before Christmas pressure. That would be insane, even RM are not that stupid.

More likely January.

If it's going to be before Xmas it'll be no later than early to mid November

Ours just been implemented

Go on please tell us they sorted it properly and made the duties all equal and doable with a view to rolling it out nationwide

So, in my place our 2.0 revision is due to go live in a matter of weeks and we've been given lots of Q&A time with the planner in WTLL.

Concerningly, but unsurprisingly most answers have been "Don't know" and "Just doing what I'm told"

Aside from that, all the amazing data that our PDAs are supposed to have produced isn't being used in any way. Just a preprogrammed average of X amount of packets and Y amount of letters per Z amount of delivery points.
Quite frankly a recipe for more inequality between walks than ever before

And, my favourite answer from them was when they explained that the only measure for it's success is getting it in on time.

[Barnacle]

The next revision is going to be a Geo Route Revision. Offices which have had Delivery 2.0 imposed, have had a Geo revision and it’s an omnishambles. I think Jen has described it on the Delivery 2.0 thread.

[TooManyLoops]

Ours has just failed, again

Some duties went to 2.0 and DPR support, some had no DPR support at all.

Rolled in over the last month or so and the re-pick started, this week they've decided it isn't going to work and reverting back to the old duties, they will sit down and look at it again over the coming months

Two failed revisions in the last few years, how much time and money wasted?

From a DO that cleared most duties everyday to mountains of mail shoved under fittings and 80% of the duties failing in the space of a month or so. Shambles

[funkflex55]

Yet today's offices in trouble listing has no offices on it. I think someone is not being honest somewhere!