Does the current ODM-lite ways of working strengthen the CWU's bargaining position?

[Mr Rush]

They will come to a position on their own that they’ll have to pay more for newer staff or they won’t keep any and the pool of people they can employ will shrink every single week.

The reserve army of labour never disappears. Any shortfall is met by sourcing labour from elsewhere who will work for this pay and under these conditions. Everyone has seen it in the 'gig economy' sector, so I needn't belabour my point.

[Pidleypoo]

They will come to a position on their own that they’ll have to pay more for newer staff or they won’t keep any and the pool of people they can employ will shrink every single week.

The reserve army of labour never disappears. Any shortfall is met by sourcing labour from elsewhere who will work for this pay and under these conditions. Everyone has seen it in the 'gig economy' sector, so I needn't belabour my point.

Then let them. Why is it a fight we have to have.

[Edward Hunter]

We won't. Nobody will strike after last time. Under Labour the job market is about to become very tight. Plenty of desperate people to work for a poor wage. ODM will be in by the new tax year with no resistance imo.

[postslippete]

Having read the recent RM and CWU comms, my main worry is that if the ODM/USO reform is imposed first without any meaningful movement on equalisation, the CWU’s leverage on new entrants drops massively. Once ODM becomes the “new normal,” RM can simply say that deployment is done and they still can’t afford equalisation. If offices are already being run down now, how much worse can it realistically get? If they can’t afford equalisation now having just returned to profit, when will they ever? Or is the intention that it simply never happens?

The two-tier issue also becomes harder to resolve the longer it runs. The more new starters recruited on inferior terms, the bigger and more expensive equalisation becomes. At the same time the duties are larger, parcel volumes are much higher, and workloads have clearly increased. There are obvious operational downsides to this model: the loss of experience, high churn, poorer performance and lower morale etc etc. But if ODM is banked first, RM has far less reason to trade anything on the new entrants terms.. The CWU are absolutely right not to sign off a model when the pilots haven't worked and if RM moves to executive action, that risks pushing more offices into meltdown increasing the public and regulatory pressures which are already growing as failures increase.

So what credible bargaining tools does the CWU still have to force movement on equalisation? Industrial action will be a bit of a hard sell after the last dispute, but the operating environment has changed. Duties are bigger, with more additional tasks like collections and parcels are positively booming; and whilst overtime has obviously reduced after peak, the business still relies heavily on goodwill and overtime to keep things moving. If staff strictly work to time, a lot of the hidden capacity disappears very quickly. On top of that, employers generally can’t use agency workers to cover striking staff anymore and that means that any serious unrest would hurt the business far more than it might have in the past.

For that reason, I think the Union’s hand is actually much stronger than it looks - but only if ODM is not traded away for nothing. Without at least a clear flight path to full equalisation, signing off ODM would permanently weaken the Union’s position and make equalisation much easier to park indefinitely.

[zz666]

ODM in it's current form will be a disaster. It is a concerted attempt to run the business into the ground, so the can go to ofcom again. Not sure it will strengthen the cwu's hand.

[yellowbelly]

I think it's been referred to in the thread and possibly elsewhere, but wasn't the Union's version undergoing trials in some offices? How did that go? From the lack of news I'd surmise that it's not brought the savings RM want either otherwise CWU would be saying 'Look it works!!'

So it's all very well saying we're not in agreement, we're going down the dispute resolution route (or whatever they're doing)
but at the end of the day if the RM version isn't working according to CWU and if the CWU version doesn't bring in enough cost savings what other options are there out there?

RM want to cut costs - that's it. What's one of the biggest costs and one of the easiest to trim? - staff. Always has been and always will be in whatever industry we're referring to.

So what's the alternative proposal?

[Perseus]

I think it's been referred to in the thread and possibly elsewhere, but wasn't the Union's version undergoing trials in some offices? How did that go? From the lack of news I'd surmise that it's not brought the savings RM want either otherwise CWU would be saying 'Look it works!!'

So it's all very well saying we're not in agreement, we're going down the dispute resolution route (or whatever they're doing)
but at the end of the day if the RM version isn't working according to CWU and if the CWU version doesn't bring in enough cost savings what other options are there out there?

RM want to cut costs - that's it. What's one of the biggest costs and one of the easiest to trim? - staff. Always has been and always will be in whatever industry we're referring to.

So what's the alternative proposal?

Agreed.

At this stage I feel that the CWU are just trying to delay the inevitable happening, rather than having a workable alternative.

6 years ago in those hazy days of Covid, they brought in parcel only Saturdays for a while which meant that homes only needed to get mail 5 times a week, or 10 times a fortnight (instead of 6 days a week). Only 1 person needed to do a shared van, instead of 2. That was warning number 1.
The ODM that they agreed to trial last year meant houses getting mail 5 times a fortnight down from 12 - on a 5 hour shared van delivery that's a saving of 35 hours per fortnight, or 35 hours per week over 2 'combined' shared vans like the ODM uses. That was warning number 2.
The ODM is there to cut staff, which is the biggest cost to the company.
If duties are too big just now, then they will be too big in the future, RM don't care.

[A2B]

I think it's been referred to in the thread and possibly elsewhere, but wasn't the Union's version undergoing trials in some offices? How did that go? From the lack of news I'd surmise that it's not brought the savings RM want either otherwise CWU would be saying 'Look it works!!'

I was told that part of the Southend trial office went over to a CWU suggested version of ODM which worked for everyone including local management but further up the chain management said no go as not enough savings.

I've not heard if they are still continuing with this trial within a trial.

[2chorizon]

Are you going to take industrial action on behalf of new entrants pay & T&C’s?

How many of them are in the union?

Would they have supported you? (or even did they during the recent strike?)

How come no-one ever fought for the legacy contracts who didn't get the same deal as the older PHG type contracts with the better final salary pensions?

It has been “2 tier” for years now it is “3 tier”
And now it is suddenly “a big issue”?

[yellowbelly]

Are you going to take industrial action on behalf of new entrants pay & T&C’s?

How many of them are in the union?

Would they have supported you? (or even did they during the recent strike?)

How come no-one ever fought for the legacy contracts who didn't get the same deal as the older PHG type contracts with the better final salary pensions?

It has been “2 tier” for years now it is “3 tier”
And now it is suddenly “a big issue”?

Pretty much sums it up. The Union will always say that the new contracts were unagreed, but did they put anything forward to the existing workforce to say 'Look your new colleagues are going to get shafted. IA anyone?' Don't remember if they did. Have an older colleague that's still getting paid driving allowance. Well done to them I say, but at some point that allowance was traded for something and not given to newer colleagues.

IMHO the new entrants pay & T&C's will be negotiated for the model RM want to bring in. ODM April 2026 Executive Action version with no compulsory redundancies for a year.

[TopperGas]

I think it's been referred to in the thread and possibly elsewhere, but wasn't the Union's version undergoing trials in some offices? How did that go? From the lack of news I'd surmise that it's not brought the savings RM want either otherwise CWU would be saying 'Look it works!!'

I was told that part of the Southend trial office went over to a CWU suggested version of ODM which worked for everyone including local management but further up the chain management said no go as not enough savings.

I've not heard if they are still continuing with this trial within a trial.

The RM ODM will make more savings but at what cost to customer service? We already see virtually daily news reports of poor service across the UK, how bad will it get when the ODM is eventually introduced? It seems a strange way to run a company to try and destroy all the goodwill posties have developed with customers over the years.

The ODM lite model would have made some savings and as mail dropped RM could eventually move to their own version of ODM and still kept customer service to a reasonable level. Whilst clearing 2 days mail is doable on most duties over a couple of days but I can't see how 3 days mail is going to be cleared in one day.

[sweepster70]

Are you going to take industrial action on behalf of new entrants pay & T&C’s?

How many of them are in the union?

Would they have supported you? (or even did they during the recent strike?)

How come no-one ever fought for the legacy contracts who didn't get the same deal as the older PHG type contracts with the better final salary pensions?

It has been “2 tier” for years now it is “3 tier”
And now it is suddenly “a big issue”?

Pretty much sums it up. The Union will always say that the new contracts were unagreed, but did they put anything forward to the existing workforce to say 'Look your new colleagues are going to get shafted. IA anyone?' Don't remember if they did. Have an older colleague that's still getting paid driving allowance. Well done to them I say, but at some point that allowance was traded for something and not given to newer colleagues.

IMHO the new entrants pay & T&C's will be negotiated for the model RM want to bring in. ODM April 2026 Executive Action version with no compulsory redundancies for a year.

I believe about half of new starters are in the Union. What's our percentage now? I bet it's around the 60% mark.

[Smoothbackground]

I believe about half of new starters are in the Union. What's our percentage now? I bet it's around the 60% mark.

Not doubting your percentage estimate for how many new-entrant employees are in the union, but just wondering where you get your 50% guesstimate from? Is it anecdotal/based just on your office? If so, by way of comparison, only 25% or so of us new entrants at my office are union members.

[Clappedoutpostie]

At our office about 90% of staff are CWU members and that includes new starters. It’s all about how active and visible your local rep is.

[SpacePhoenix]

At our office about 90% of staff are CWU members and that includes new starters. It’s all about how active and visible your local rep is.

How many DOs even have a rep? The last time the list of absolutely all union positions across the area covered by the MC including all those in both the MC and all the DOs, just about every DO didn't have a rep.